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Cytochrome P450 antibiotics/herbs

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Posted 9/25/2017 12:15 AM (GMT 0)
I can't find my notes on this.

I'm currently taking Mepron, Ceftin and Azithromycin (plus a couple days a month Tinidazole), along with Artemisinin.


I'm wanting to add Crytolepis, Sida Acuta and Alchornea Cordifolia.


If I'm remembering correctly - Houtuynia is on the list...but what about the CSA?

Anyone know?

I think Art is on the list.
Posted 9/25/2017 9:53 AM (GMT 0)
Bumping for more views
Posted 9/25/2017 10:45 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie, are you asking about babesia or bartonella? CSA and houttuynia are in Buhner's protocol for bart.

Looking at my babesia book he likes cryptolepis, bidens pilosa, artemisinin and sida acuta.

I'm planning on adding bidens pilosa next for me because I am allergic to sida which I wish I could take.
Posted 9/25/2017 2:05 PM (GMT 0)
As far as I can tell, Mepron, Ceftin, and Azithromycin are not big P450 medications.

Tinidazole is a CYP3A4 substrate.

Both cryptolepis and artensunate seen to be P450 medications. You probably shouldn't be taking an alcoholic tincture while you're on tinidazole anyway, as you can get a really bad reaction mixing tinidazole/metronidazole + alcohol.

Maybe pulse the Babesia herbs alternatively with the tindamax?
Posted 9/25/2017 4:54 PM (GMT 0)

Loutucky said...
Girlie, are you asking about babesia or bartonella? CSA and houttuynia are in Buhner's protocol for bart.

Looking at my babesia book he likes cryptolepis, bidens pilosa, artemisinin and sida acuta.

I'm planning on adding bidens pilosa next for me because I am allergic to sida which I wish I could take.

Prior to the new book - the CSA was his Babesia core protocol - Crypto, sida, alchornea cordifolia.

I've got almost a full bottle of the tincture...so not going to waste it.
CSA isn't in the Bart core protocol. Sida and Alchornea cordifolia is listed but not Crypto.
Posted 9/25/2017 4:59 PM (GMT 0)

Mustard Seed said...
As far as I can tell, Mepron, Ceftin, and Azithromycin are not big P450 medications.

Tinidazole is a CYP3A4 substrate.

Both cryptolepis and artensunate seen to be P450 medications. You probably shouldn't be taking an alcoholic tincture while you're on tinidazole anyway, as you can get a really bad reaction mixing tinidazole/metronidazole + alcohol.

Maybe pulse the Babesia herbs alternatively with the tindamax?

I do know Azithromycin and Ceftin aren't (although clarithromycin is) on the list...but wasn't sure about the Mepron.

I'm only on Tinidazole two days a month...so will try to remember not to take the tinctures on those days.
Although there's really a minute amount of alcohol in them. And it's the only tincture I take ...so shouldn't add up to much more than an overripe banana (lol)

hmmm never thought about the cryptolepis and Artesunate ....I guess it's the same for the Artemisinin and other derivatives of the Artemisia.

I wonder what the effect is - re: inhibitor or enhancer of each.
Posted 9/25/2017 6:21 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, sorry. I get them confused. You're right. Crypto is not in the bart protocol. I am going to try and add bidens pilosa in the near future to the babesia protocol.
Posted 9/25/2017 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
Using WE's CSA with MYCO to treat Bart
and CSA with Auntie Vi combos for (friend with) stubborn case of Babs D.

The former just arrived today and I tried 8 drops each. I believe there is a minor yet tolerable herx going on in my brain, I can feel it to a lessor extent in the knee also therefore I am thinking it may be active vs Borellia also. Fingers crossed.

I should have tried them separately but was hurried today so I gambled that I could take it in conjunction. So far no major issue. Its working as I expected. I will take up the dosing slowly from here.

Making major headway (with friend) with the latter combo in conjunction with Tinidazole, Nitazoxanide, Albendazole all delivered in pulse schedules.
Posted 9/25/2017 6:48 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

Tinidazole is a CYP3A4 substrate.

Both cryptolepis and artensunate seen to be P450 medications. You probably shouldn't be taking an alcoholic tincture while you're on tinidazole anyway, as you can get a really bad reaction mixing tinidazole/metronidazole + alcohol.
...

If you use a HOT tea to put your alcohol extracts (or tinctures) in, the alcohol will mostly evaporate and be removed within minutes. This will bring it to a safe and minuscule level with regards to the Tinidazole concern.
Posted 9/25/2017 6:57 PM (GMT 0)
Is it ok to take herbs in alcohol with rifampin?
Posted 9/25/2017 7:07 PM (GMT 0)
I don't think alcohol should be taken with any antibiotics.


But the amount in the tinctures is minimal.

I just separate them by a couple hours.
Posted 9/25/2017 7:09 PM (GMT 0)

ChickenArise said...

Girlie said...

Tinidazole is a CYP3A4 substrate.

Both cryptolepis and artensunate seen to be P450 medications. You probably shouldn't be taking an alcoholic tincture while you're on tinidazole anyway, as you can get a really bad reaction mixing tinidazole/metronidazole + alcohol.
...

If you use a HOT tea to put your alcohol extracts (or tinctures) in, the alcohol will mostly evaporate and be removed within minutes. This will bring it to a safe and minuscule level with regards to the Tinidazole concern.

I'm not sure that does work - I remember a discussion on here a couple years ago. Couldn't find enough info to be convincing .
Posted 9/25/2017 7:19 PM (GMT 0)
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3707175

Previous discussion on removing alcohol from tinctures
Posted 9/25/2017 8:38 PM (GMT 0)
Removing all of the alcohol is technically not possible by this method. There will be a minuscule to negligible amount remaining.
EDIT: apparently after a search, it is more than minuscule, but less than the initial amount.

The hotter the tea (and the more time) the more rapid the evaporation. Stirring helps it along, but to be honest, I didnt stir. I add the extracts to the tea so it is close to the surface.

However I have taken extracts containing alcohol while on Tinidazole using this method. My water is hot but not boiling hot as it comes out of a dispenser which heats.

I did not get ill from the combination for what it is worth, but the amount going into my tea never exceeded 2 droppers full.
Posted 9/25/2017 9:00 PM (GMT 0)
Here is some information on how little alcohol is known to cause this unpleasant reaction

How the interaction occurs:

Metronidazole and tinidazole cause an intolerance to alcohol by altering how the body breaks down alcohol. Many medicines (prescription and nonprescription), mouthwashes, and aftershaves contain alcohol.

Even a small amount of alcohol (e.g. 15 ml or one tablespoon) can trigger the effects.

What might happen:

Ingesting alcohol or using topical preparations that contain alcohol may result in throbbing in the head and neck, irregular heart beat, rapid heart beat, low blood pressure, sweating, nausea, and vomiting.

This interaction may last from 30 to 60 minutes to several hours, depending on the amount of alcohol consumed.

What you should do about this interaction:

If possible, avoid the use of medicines that contain alcohol when using metronidazole. Use of topical products such as creams or lotions that contain alcohol may also cause this interaction. The amount of alcohol required to cause this interaction varies with individuals.

FROM www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-91258/tinidazole-oral/details/list-interaction-details/dmid-1361/dmtitle-metronidazole-tinidazole-ethyl-alcohol/intrtype-drug
Posted 9/25/2017 10:13 PM (GMT 0)
Ingesting alcohol or using topical preparations that contain alcohol may result in throbbing in the head and neck, irregular heart beat, rapid heart beat, low blood pressure, sweating, nausea, and vomiting.

Well, I already get sweating, rapid heart beat and throbbing in my head...lol.
Posted 9/25/2017 10:31 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Ingesting alcohol or using topical preparations that contain alcohol may result in throbbing in the head and neck, irregular heart beat, rapid heart beat, low blood pressure, sweating, nausea, and vomiting.

Well, I already get sweating, rapid heart beat and throbbing in my head...lol.

LOL. I read the Sida causes the rapid heart beat also, so be careful on the amount you use of the CSA per dose. The Auntie Vi formula has caused me anxiety and sweating at times. These herbs are potent.
Better to have multiple tolerable lower doses than a big one that causes effects. Cheers.
Posted 9/25/2017 11:03 PM (GMT 0)

ChickenArise said...

Girlie said...
Ingesting alcohol or using topical preparations that contain alcohol may result in throbbing in the head and neck, irregular heart beat, rapid heart beat, low blood pressure, sweating, nausea, and vomiting.

Well, I already get sweating, rapid heart beat and throbbing in my head...lol.

LOL. I read the Sida causes the rapid heart beat also, so be careful on the amount you use of the CSA per dose.
Better to have multiple tolerable lower doses than a big one that causes effects. Cheers.


too late for that. i was frustrated the night before last and took 2 full dropperfuls...and again yesterday afternoon.

I've been on it before, though...and never really noticed anything on it.
Posted 9/26/2017 2:34 PM (GMT 0)
HawaiiPharm makes most all of the tinctures available with no alcohol. Just an FYI.
Posted 9/26/2017 5:58 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not concerned with the small amount of alcohol in the tinctures.

I also space it away from the antibiotics.
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