HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Need advice before reordering Buhner Bartonella herbs

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 9/25/2017 10:55 PM (GMT 0)
I need to reorder some herbs and supplements I'm taking following Buhner's bartonella protocol from the book. I need some advice about brands. Below is what I've been taking and how I feel about it. Are these decent brands? Should I change something?

EGCG - Healthy Origins brand Teavigo
Each capsule has 150mg of camellia sinensis (94% EGCG equals 141mg). I take 2 capsules in the am with about 1000mg Bulk Supplements branch Quercetin. Buhner gives a lot of information about the EGCG in the mycoplasma section of the book. I followed his directions except that he says to get certain % of EGCG and so many total catechins. This brand doesn't indicate anything except EGCG. I got so confused trying to find a brand with what he indicated. I ended up with Teavigo because it sounded like a good quality brand, and I was exhausted trying to decide on something.

Nature's Way standardized Rhodiola 250mg capsules. I take one in the am and just recently added a second dose in the early afternoon. Buhner indicates tincture for rhodiola, but I don't like tinctures and wanted capsules. Is this okay, or do I need to change to something else?

Paradise Herbs brand Ashwaganda 250mg capsules. I take two around 8:30 pm. I started with one and recently added a second one. Buhner indicates tincture in the bart protocol but does mention this brand of capsules in other places. Again, I wanted a capsule instead of tincture.

I started with Japanese Knotweed. Then added the following in this order.

EGCG with Quercetin
Hawthorne
Rhodiola am / Ashwaganda pm
Cordyceps
Red Root
Skullcap/Danshen combo (not in bart protocol)

Once I added rhodiola/ashwaganda I started noticing improvement - less joint stiffness, less weird pains in the head, etc. I was feeling good when I added Cordyceps and then got thrown a curveball when I herxed/flared?? with mold/chemical/electro sensitivities and stopped Cordy after 3 days. Took almost two weeks for the sensitivities to go away. I added back Red Root and Skullcap/Danshen which I'd taken before. Having mild herxing/symptom worsening - more joint stiffness, foot pain, trouble walking, tiredness, waking up with sore throat and swollen glands. I guess I need to reduce the number of drops.

RHODIOLA/ASHWAGANDA:
Rhodiola is supposed to give you energy. I can't really tell what it does to me but doesn't seem to do any harm. I figured it was at least helping my immune system since I started feeling better after starting this and ashwaganda. Ashwaganda is supposed to make you sleepy and help with sleep problems. I feel like I was sleeping better before starting ashwaganda. It sometimes makes me slightly drowsy right after I take it but then I get more wired before going to bed. Decongestants have the opposite than expected affect on me, too. They make me sleepy in the daytime and wide awake at night. Maybe I'm just weird like that.

Any advice/suggestions? Are my brands okay? I need to order tonight or tomorrow. Thanks.
Posted 9/25/2017 11:21 PM (GMT 0)
Personally, I try to stick to Buhner's recommended sources.

I have purchased from Green Dragon Botanicals, Woodland Essence, Sage Woman Herbs.

Someone posted that Buhner has WE make up his tinctures...can't remember where I read that though.


I made the mistake of purchasing Hawthorn from our local health food store when I ran out...and what a difference.
It tasted horrible...and the WE Hawthorn tastes kind of 'fruity'.
Posted 9/26/2017 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie,

What brand of EGCG did you use?
Posted 9/26/2017 1:50 AM (GMT 0)
Yea Hawthorn is supposed to taste good. The one herb I like lol.

I get my herbs from Montana farmacy. A one stop shop. But it does take a week to arrive.
Posted 9/26/2017 3:02 AM (GMT 0)
I got the majority of hubby's and mine from HawaiiPharm or HawaiiPharm via Amazon.

I think if you cost compare Sage Woman Herbs is the least expensive. I was Amazon Prime, so I love HawaiiPharm and they were super dependable and fast delivery for being in Hawaii.
Posted 9/26/2017 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
I use Standard Process hawthorn. good stuff. stopped my heart palps. I use Pure Encapsulations EECG. I use Woodland Essence and Montana Pharmacy for my tinctures.
Posted 9/26/2017 3:07 AM (GMT 0)
Oh what about collagen? Any skin signs? Here are some signs of collagen deficiency.

Since collagen is present in many tissues and organs, there are wide varieties of symptoms manifesting collagen deficiency.

Skin: Collagen is the main support for skin. The layers of skin contain collagen. Deficiency of collagen reflects into formation of wrinkles, sagging skin, easy bruising, and loss of elasticity. Wounds take time to heal with lack of collagen.
Muscles: Collagen is a cementing agent for muscle fibers. Patient with collagen deficiency may complain of frequent muscle ache.
Cartilage: Cartilage is thin tissue found in joints. It keeps the structures in joints bound together. Joint is made up of various structures such as tendons, bones, blood vessels. Deficiency of collagen in cartilage can affect joint stability besides producing stiffness and joint pains.
Blood vessels walls: Deficiency of collagen can affect the blood vessels. It can produce chest pain, dry eyes, headaches, skin rashes, breathing difficulty etc.
Teeth: Collagen substance aids in anchoring the teeth to gums. Lack of collagen loosens teeth which may result in toothache and early destruction of teeth.

/www.proteinessentials.com/hydrolyzed-collagen-peptide-powder-unflavored-2lbs- p/cpehc102.htm

I love this brand!!! It mixes in my coffee and has no taste at all. Easily mixes in anything. I have put it in smoothies, soups, stews and every morning my coffee.
Posted 9/26/2017 11:37 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Personally, I try to stick to Buhner's recommended sources.

I have purchased from Green Dragon Botanicals, Woodland Essence, Sage Woman Herbs.

I stick to Buhners suggestions most of the time too. However I found that Green Dragons Knotweed was overpriced weaksauce. I used some when I ran out of my bulk Knotweed. It definitely tasted like knotweed but wasn't as strong in flavor and consequently in effect either. I started relapsing and acquiring new symptoms immediately. I've been fighting off abnormal heart rhythms ever since. Let me be clear that I don't think Green Dragon caused my heart rhythm problem. Rather I just think it was weak and allowed me to relapse. I knew from the second it hit my tongue that it lacked the potency i was familiar with. If you're willing to pay more for inferior product because it's encapsulated it should be fine to use. But Nuherbs Knotweed powder is phenomenal on the other hand. Far cheaper, stronger flavor, kicked me back into gear immediately.

But then again these things change from season to season too. So i don't want to talk down Green Dragon for being a bad brand. I used to use plumflower knotweed which was great. Now it's garbage. And by garbage I mean it's not even knotweed but some other herb they mixed up. Maybe i just didn't get the best batch of Green Dragon either. In that case it's still overpriced.
Posted 9/26/2017 1:52 PM (GMT 0)
On the ashwagandha, you can try taking it earlier in the day, especially if your adrenals are producing low amounts of cortisol. I had the same reaction as you did to taking ashwagandha in the evening, so I stopped it. My doc told me to take it upon rising and no later than 2 pm and it helps me a lot on that schedule - but I do have serious issues with my adrenal function.
Posted 9/26/2017 2:01 PM (GMT 0)
I have bought all bulk (1 lb) powdered herbs from amazon and have had significant success in just 1.5 months. mix them all together then usually take a heaping table spoon three times a day with water or juice. Sometime I encapsulate them just for a break from the bitterness. Unencapsulated, they go down hard!

Jason
Posted 9/26/2017 8:22 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
I got the majority of hubby's and mine from HawaiiPharm or HawaiiPharm via Amazon.

I think if you cost compare Sage Woman Herbs is the least expensive. I was Amazon Prime, so I love HawaiiPharm and they were super dependable and fast delivery for being in Hawaii.

Does HawaiiPharm sell Sida Acuta? I love them becuase they offer two day shipping with prime, but I want to order Sidea Acuta but dont see that they have it..
Posted 9/27/2017 4:26 PM (GMT 0)
Jason:
What herbs are you buying from Amazon? You have no side effects?

I want to start the buhner protocol but I am so confused as to what to buy. It is best to use tinctures or powders?

I am also afraid of side effects. I have hasimotos and I take aspirin everyday that my cardiologist wants me to take and I heard that one of the supplements is a blood thinner. Don't remember which one off the top.

Thanks for any input.
Posted 9/28/2017 3:42 AM (GMT 0)

Psilociraptor said...

I used to use plumflower knotweed which was great. Now it's garbage. And by garbage I mean it's not even knotweed but some other herb they mixed up. Maybe i just didn't get the best batch of Green Dragon either. In that case it's still overpriced.

Psilociraptor,
Plum Flower is the brand of powdered knotweed Buhner recommends. That's what I'm using. What do you mean "it's not even knotweed but some other herb they mixed up." How do you know that? If it's not knotweed, then what is it? Please explain where you got this information from.
Posted 9/28/2017 6:17 AM (GMT 0)
WalkingbyFaith i am only seeing supporting bartonella herbs in your list. These are very important but are you planning to add some more bactericidal herbs ? You should not take Buhner's advice that "making bartonella's home inhospitable" too serious. He goes on a rant in his coinfections book about how "we don't need to kill bartonella, just make our bodies inhospitable, BUT IF WE REALLY INSIST, there u go he recommends additional bactericidal herbs".

My advice is to take all herbs you have above, plus the bartonella killers, all of them. This is a very hard to beat bacteria and my experience with his support protocol is it does not reverse the condition without bactericidal herbs. Everybody's different but that's my experience. Even with the bactericidal herbs, it barely reverses some symptoms, but i was cheap and haven't used all the killer herbs, so ....

So i recommend you add: isatis, sida, alchornea and houttuynia in a mixed way, as described by Buhner in his book.
Posted 9/28/2017 12:53 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...

Psilociraptor said...

I used to use plumflower knotweed which was great. Now it's garbage. And by garbage I mean it's not even knotweed but some other herb they mixed up. Maybe i just didn't get the best batch of Green Dragon either. In that case it's still overpriced.

Psilociraptor,
Plum Flower is the brand of powdered knotweed Buhner recommends. That's what I'm using. What do you mean "it's not even knotweed but some other herb they mixed up." How do you know that? If it's not knotweed, then what is it? Please explain where you got this information from.

Knotweed has a very distinct flavor. Like smoked bamboo is the best way i can describe it. My first batch from plumflower was great. My last one was extremely fine, sweet flavored, and left a slightly numbing after taste. I mean apples and oranges. Or even more like honey vs broccoli. There's no way the two batches are related plants. All my other batches have been like the first. Of course each one varies slightly with its chemistry, but they don't diverge much. This one just tasted like something else entirely. I don't know if plumflowers resolved it. But I was so annoyed by it and their placating response ("we just increased our microbial standards") i've stuck with nuherbs ever since.

I know it sounds silly that I'm knocking them on taste. But that's one of the most sophisticated pieces of chemical detection hardware on the planet. If you reached into the fridge to grab some salad and bit into a fork full of ice cream you would know somethings wrong. It was that dramatic. I tried telling myself i was overthinking it but I couldn't ignore it. I popped open some green dragon caps to taste and confirmed my fears. Ordered Nuherb, and it only strengthened my confidence that I knew exactly what knotweed tasted like and plumflowers batch was not it. On another note Green Dragons taste was definitely knotweed but not as strong. My health started slipping when i switched to taking it at the doses i was used to. Nuherbs was much stronger and kicked me right back into gear. It's amazing what taste can tell you about the chemistry and strength of your plants. Or maybe i'm just looney and projecting... ya never know

Post Edited (Psilociraptor) : 9/28/2017 6:56:49 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/28/2017 3:39 PM (GMT 0)

mpost said...
WalkingbyFaith i am only seeing supporting bartonella herbs in your list. These are very important but are you planning to add some more bactericidal herbs ? You should not take Buhner's advice that "making bartonella's home inhospitable" too serious. He goes on a rant in his coinfections book about how "we don't need to kill bartonella, just make our bodies inhospitable, BUT IF WE REALLY INSIST, there u go he recommends additional bactericidal herbs".

My advice is to take all herbs you have above, plus the bartonella killers, all of them. This is a very hard to beat bacteria and my experience with his support protocol is it does not reverse the condition without bactericidal herbs. Everybody's different but that's my experience. Even with the bactericidal herbs, it barely reverses some symptoms, but i was cheap and haven't used all the killer herbs, so ....

So i recommend you add: isatis, sida, alchornea and houttuynia in a mixed way, as described by Buhner in his book.

I hear you, mpost. I have sida and IHA in the wings. I've dabbled with a few drops now and then but haven't added them full force yet. I herx very easily and have problems even with the supportive herbs like knotweed. I'm trying to get all the other herbs in first to help my body prepare for the killers smile I'm still feel worse right now after adding red root and reinstituting skullcap/danshen combo.
Posted 9/28/2017 3:52 PM (GMT 0)

NicHostetler said...

PeteZa said...
I got the majority of hubby's and mine from HawaiiPharm or HawaiiPharm via Amazon.

I think if you cost compare Sage Woman Herbs is the least expensive. I was Amazon Prime, so I love HawaiiPharm and they were super dependable and fast delivery for being in Hawaii.

Does HawaiiPharm sell Sida Acuta? I love them becuase they offer two day shipping with prime, but I want to order Sidea Acuta but dont see that they have it..

I did not use Sida Acuta and I just looked and HawaiiPharm does not have it. It's chinese name is huang hua ren. Just in case you have to look for it that way. It is sometimes called Broomgrass also.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply