Lyme Disease has been in North America more than 20,000 Years

scienceline.org/2017/11/lyme-bacteria-settled-north-america-far-earlier-thought/

So a recent article surfaced on Scienceline.org, according to them, "Lyme Disease has been here for 20,000 years" and it's just "ecological changes" that has exacerbated this disease, not the "changes in the disease bacterium itself."

I'd like to comment on this topic, as LymeDisease.org had recently posted about this on Facebook as well. I'd like to broaden people's minds a little before they jump the gun and think that this "same" borrelia has been here for thousands of years...

I'd also like to here other people's opinions on this forum.

First off, lets examine this statement...

"Lyme disease has been in North America more than 20,000 years"

Which borrelia strain or species are they referring too? Aren't there over 100 different strains? Like borrelia miyamotoi...

Just a guess, but I bet the aggressive strain that came out of lyme connecticut is a lot different than the strain or species that was found from a lactose intolerant caveman centuries ago. Couldn't you say that about the food and grain we eat today? That's it's different and not the same... Wheat hybridized, other plants genetically modified.

I'm really surprised this Scienceline.org organization says there hasn't been changes in the disease bacterium itself. First off, with evolution and life, there's always changes happening right?

Last time I checked, scientists are able to genetically modify plants, what's not saying the strain that was brought over from Europe wasn't genetically modified over at a "special lab" we know of or in some way bred much more aggressive.

Let me tell you a story, once upon a time a scientist mated an African honey bee with a European Italian bee in the "1950s." It made a much more aggressive honey bee, what we know of today as the Killer Bee. What's funny about the story is, the Killer Bee escaped quarantine and now it's found all across southern US and south america... My oh my what a coincidence, sounds somewhat relative to another story I once heard.

I very much base my opinion more on science fact than conspiracy theory of course and I completely agree that ecological changes like climate change, less small game predators and more mice and deer very much exacerbated this disease. But what I've seen from our healthcare and food industry, is the downright denial of science and manipulation of science behind this disease and others, so take warning. There may be more hidden factors than we might not know about, which I'm trying to point out.

"Top scientists" from the CDC/IDSA denied this bacteria ever being chronic, denied both biofilms and round body forms. And manipulated studies behind Lyme...

And top scientists from our healthcare industry deny about the unsafeness of GMOs, yet what ya know, look at the increase of digestive disease and disorders: Ulcerative colitis, Chrons, or Celica Disease. I'm sorry, but not a lot of these diseases weren't around when my grandparents grew up.

Point being, be careful what scientific group you're getting your information from! Who owns scienceline.org?

Scientists wonder why people so much question Climate Change. Well if you look at the history of science within our country, it hasn't been so scientific. It's been bought off... Lobbyists from the food industry influence scentific studies on sugar and sat fats, which was recently leaked. And they also lied about cigarettes being healthy decades ago...

/www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html

"The sugar industry paid scientists in the 1960s to play down the link between sugar and heart disease and promote saturated fat as the culprit instead, newly released historical documents show."

Curiosity plagues me, what other times have scientists and doctors been bought off... I recently heard that the CDC/IDSA doctors is being sued for conspiring with insurance companies to deny treatment.

I think what we're seeing is the failure of the system and without a doubt coverup after coverup. That's why any study that you read should be examined closely and thought about in a different way.

I heard what Willy Burgdorfer's opinion was after he was interviewed many years ago about this disease in relation to Plum Island. This was talked about by microbiologist Tom Grier on Coast to Coast AM, which can be brought up in the archives of C2C.

You do enough digging, the truth is there....

It seems like anytime our country's dark history is brought up about this disease, the caveman discovery or articles like these supposed to immediately debunk our country's history with Naz! scientist Erich Traub or Project Paperclip. It makes me sick!!!

Lets not ignore our history folks, but learn from it. Just my input on this topic...

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 11/30/2017 11:12:07 AM (GMT-7)

Great input Missouri....

Hahahha, vaccine marketing plan...

Man it's so weird how they said it's been around all this time, yet the first case showed up in 1975...

Such a dark dark history surrounding this bacteria and yet the dark history is still being created even to this day. What I've learned is about government and human beings in general, they don't know how to come clean about the truth. So the lies keep building up... Dr. Jemsek remarked about this in Under Our Skin 2.

I remember Tom Grier stating on Coast to Coast AM that there was a doctor decades ago, I think long before Dr. MacDonald who discovered the connection of spirochetes to MS. He was a doctor from my own state in Michigan, went to Wayne State University. I haven't watched the episode in so long, I just remember what haunts me was when Tom Grier went out of his way to mention the biowarfare side of this disease.

You can still listen to the 3 shows on Coast to Coast AM, but you have to buy a membership. It's pretty cheap and well worth it though...
/www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/grier-tom/53606

Tom Grier also remarked on how some scientists actually joked around and said "MS" stood for Multiple Spirochetes.

I haven't watched those episodes in awhile, but I can say they were riveting...

So much great information about this disease on the web, by no surprise to me why the powers at be want to end Net Neutrality...

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 11/30/2017 3:50:58 PM (GMT-7)

www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=8&contentid=11785&page=2

The film-makers for Lyme disease documentary Under Our Skin, relate the bizarre story of what happened when they tried to interview Willy Burgdorfer, the biowarfare researcher for whom the Lyme disease agent is named:

“Just as we began filming, there was a pounding on the door, and we found ourselves facing someone who turned out to be a top researcher at the nearby Rocky Mountain Laboratories, a biolevel-4 NIH research facility. Standing on the porch, our uninvited guest said, “I’ve been told that I need to supervise this interview. This comes from the highest levels. There are things that Willy can’t talk about.”

“We were stunned. After all, Dr. Burgdorfer had been retired from the lab since 1986. We were there to talk to a private citizen, about the history of a very public discovery that had put him on the short list for a Nobel Prize. Earlier that year, the NIH had refused our requests to interview any of their Lyme researchers. What was going on? Why would the NIH want to censor information about the fastest growing bug-borne disease in the United States?’ “Lyme discoverer Willy Burgdorfer breaks silence on heated controversy,”

/www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-disease-ancient-amber-tick.html


The issue with this article is that they fail to source a study illustrating their claims, plus the author is an english and art major, not a scientist.

I understand that Borrelia Burgdorferi most likely existed well before its discovery in the 1970's, however I'm merely playing devils advocate here. I'm not asking if it existed prior to its discovery but if there's proof of genetic manipulation that can't account for the slow epidemiological and ecological changes.

I put dashes around what illustrates the lack of proof from this article.

The article you linked states:

The oldest known evidence of Lyme disease --may-- lie in ticks that were entombed in amber at least 15 million years ago, --scientists announced.--

(which scientists and why may have?)
The researchers investigated four fossilized ticks that had been trapped in chunks of amber found in the Dominican Republic. Inside the ticks' bodies, the scientists --saw-- a large population of cells --that looked like the squiggly shaped spirochete cells of the Borrelia genus-- a --type-- of bacteria that causes Lyme disease today.

(Using the words "may" and "looked like" isn't scientific and so this article never claims that the amber find is the earliest documented case of Lyme disease as there are hundreds of strains of borrelia which all look comparable.)

Now, the article does state that the "Iceman" Otzï is the earliest documented case of Lyme disease:

"Before he was frozen in the glacier, the iceman was probably already in misery from Lyme disease," Poinar said. "He had a lot of health problems and was really a mess."

However the only thing the author of this article and the majority of people remember from that iceman story was the catchy headline of "Lyme bacteria found in Iceman Mummy". While it did make for an interesting headline, it wasn't entirely true. If it was, it would prove the skeptics belief that Lyme existed prior to the 20th century. From the Nature study:

Within the Spirochaetes phylum, 45.7% of the reads (0.16% of the total bacterial hits) were assigned to sequences of the pathogen B. burgdorferi, which is known to cause Lyme disease in humans (Fig. 5). To confirm this result of the metagenomic approach, the entire number of reads was mapped against the B. burgdorferi reference genome and the strain-specific B. burgdorferi plasmids. One million sequence reads covered about 60% of the B. burgdorferi genome including a high representation of the bacterial episome, which was covered up to 67% at least once. While several reads were specific for Borrelia, the ***60% coverage still represents an upper boundary as reads may map to other species besides Borrelia.***

TLDR: The study did not find an exact genomic match for Borrelia burgdorferi, but matched only about 60% of the sequence. Whatever Spirochete was found and tested in the Iceman may be attributed to other species of bacteria.

And here's the follow up study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3753567/

LMAT shows that among the reads assigned to the Borrelia genus, the majority of the ***reads are assigned to non–species-specific genomic regions with species-specific reads assigned to several Borrelia species, including B.burgdorferi, Borrelia garinii and others.*** The Borellia reads were compared against all sequenced Borrelia genomes to compute an SNP-based genetic distance matrix. The phylogenetic tree given in Supplementary Figure S10 supports LMAT’s ***finding that the Borrelia variant is divergent from B.burgdorferi.***

So, no it isn't proof of borrelia burgdorferi and it is likely divergent from it. Yet, now millions of people believe Lyme was a documented case in an iceman because of sensationalized headlines with zero followups to correct their misunderstanding.

The truth is that a form of “Lyme Disease” – or at least the bacterium that caused it – existed for many years before possibly the new, more virulent species showed up on the shores of Connecticut. Ask youself why this is?

Brown University published an accurate timeline of the appearance of the causative agent Borrelia Burgdorferi, as well as the troublesome vector for the illness the Ixodes tick.

However, what the timeline shows is an interesting lack of cases or research regarding the illness between 1934 and 1970.

Up to 1934, the agent and the reports of symptoms only came from Europe. The symptoms of that disease were relatively less extensive when compared to today’s form of the illness.

In 2008, a team of researchers at the University of Bath confirmed that the bacterium originated in Europe, with a traceable origin before the Ice Age, but it did not originate in North America.

The researchers tried to explain away the re-emergence of the bacterium in North America as related to the “restoration of woodland” in the 1970s, as reported by a Science Daily.

First, Americans have lived, played and worked in and around “woodland” for many decades, without any reports of the terrible neuroborreliosis illness in large numbers that plauges New England today. The tick bites and symptoms that did occur, were “benign” according to many peer reviewed studies on pubmed.

In other words, while the bacteria and the vector tick existed for many years, the arrival of this far more virulent and dangerous form of B. burgdorferi in Old Lyme, CT in 1975 and the fact that it severely affected a cluster of victims might indicate that something changed.

So, now my question is if Borrelia Burgdorferi's genetics were altered by man? And if we could find proof that a modification took place. That I don't know but am willing to research.

Charlie , et al -

You should do a search for Elena Cook's posts here on the forum. She also has a website but it's "down".........................

Cook has done significant research on Lyme's bioengineering/biowarfare history. We've talked about it quite a bit in the past. Because of the process of scientific evolution I assert that the current Lyme epidemic could be caused only by a corrupted, engineered change in the microbe. We know that after WWII bioweaponry research was a big military focus and that it's very difficult to do this research "by the books" - not enough willing participants and this is one reason why .gov claims in public these horrific studies have been stopped, while continuing them covertly. And we know about Plum Island and countless other CDC labs that have been cited for "accidental" infractions and dangerous carelessness.......

We also have plenty of evidence of CDC and NIH corruption and participation or conducting these studies - the most infamous was the Tuskogee syphillus experiment.

I no longer "wonder" in frustration how the system could be so corrupt that the Lyme cabal can continue to sabotage progress for 40+ years, contributing to the current epidemic. The only effective mechanism for this kind of control and manipulation is the US military--or more specifically the MIIC (military intelligence industrial complex). And if you really want to understand how politics and economics works in this country, learn more about the MIIC.

Yes, the "caveman origins" and "global warming" stories are well-timed to help steer the masses away from the real cause for today's Lyme epidemic. Same way the "attempts to blame Lyme vaccine victims for the current anti-vaxxer harm against humanity" is coordinated with Big Pharma's advertisements for new Lyme vaccines that are still several years away.

Any time you find yourself thinking or stating anything regarding "conspiracy" ask yourself where and how you learned to consider something conspiratorial - who told you or what evidence you learned and how? Almost every single time, you'll realize you've been TOLD that something is conspiratorial by the media. You read it or heard it somewhere. You, yourself, don't actually know anything factual about it but you learned to think about it that way. it's conspiratorial. It's a form of brainwashing. You hear something associated with "conspiracy" enough times, you start to believe it. The system was designed to do your thinking for you...

"Conspiracy theory" is a term developed by the CIA as part of their psychological warfare strategies - you can find information about it on their own website. They developed a highly effective program that implements a psychological approach to condemning the disagreement with, questions about, or suggestions of alternatives to ANY official information provided by the government. So, whatever they don't want the public to understand or know about, they deem it "conspiracy theory" and that topic is marginalized, and the people who talk about it are humiliated and bullied into submission. Think about all the "conspiracy theory" topics we have now... and ask yourself why? Why all of a sudden is something considered WRONG simply because someone in the "PRESS" deemed it "conspiratorial"?

The media is complicit. 96% of mainstream media is owned by only 5 entities, tied to about 3 people. Ask yourself how in the world this ensures a "free press" how this almost always ensures that information put to the public is tightly controlled. And ask yourself what benefit it provides the powers that be... and how easy it is to keep information from the public and how easy it is to direct traffic towards "conspiracy theories". I've seen it first-hand. A well-known blogger and Lyme sufferer for Huffington Post was also working on a VICE story about Lyme when, during an abrupt "reshuffling" of staff (layoffs) under the guise of "transferring to all digital formats", the story got squashed... This was right around the time that Washington Post published that horrific editorial hit piece on Lyme. Sometimes you have to step way back to see the forest through all the trees - sometimes, the truth is right in front of your face.

The Lyme epidemic is a perfect example of the effectiveness of these psyops strategies - the NIH's origin of "Lyme loonies", anyone not treating with 3 wks of doxy is promoting "pseudoscience" and suggestions that Lyme is a bioweapon (despite the hard evidence) is conspiracy, lab leaks, it's all conspiracy. Do you feel like you're living a conspiracy? No, it's pretty real for us.

People visiting this forum are mostly focused on getting healed. There is an appropriate time and place for it but I feel it's also important to understand the context for the problem we're living. It's tough to learn this and even harder to accept, for some. But we need to stop living in a fantasy of what our country is supposed to be and start understanding how it really is so that we can work together to change it. It starts with education.

-p

Pirouette said...
Charlie , et al -

You should do a search for Elena Cook's posts here on the forum. She also has a website but it's "down".........................

Yeah I've read some of Elena's articles, so sad her site is down, she had uncovered a lot of good stuff. I'm a webmaster myself and know sometimes it's a struggle keeping up with the cost of the domain and a server... I hope she gets her site back online!!!

Really really appreciate the input Pirouette, glad this got people motivated on giving their perspective on the history of Lyme. Really appreciate everyone's input and great to see people haven't forgotten our country's dark past.

If anyone hasn't seen the documentary Under the Eightball yet, be sure to give it a watch. Sometime the documentary gets posted on YouTube, but then gets taken down... Here's a great trailer to the documentary.

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbo1o4uW_iM

That doctor sitting on the couch is one of my LLMDs from Michigan, Dr. Markowitz. I respect him for appearing in a controversial documentary like Under the Eightball. I don't think he's traditionally a ILADs supporting doctor because he's actually a Infectious Disease Doctor, but I respect him for at least treating with longterm antibiotics and thinking oustide the box. I had only treated with him for like 4-5 months 4 years ago.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 12/2/2017 10:00:39 AM (GMT-7)