HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Buhner herbalist – I’ve been doing it all wrong.

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 8/16/2018 1:45 PM (GMT 0)
Well this was an interesting appointment. I saw a Buhner herbalist in CT and brought my protocol sheet with me that I’ve been on for the past 2 1/2 months for lyme, babesia, mycoplasma, and bartonella.

Before we discussed it, she reviewed my food allergy panel. Her take on my whole situtation why I wasn't seeing any improvement was that since I’ve been eating foods that I have a high sensitivity to on a daily basis, I’ve been creating unnecessary inflammation within my body which is preventing the protocols from working. She also mentioned that the inflammation can cause leaky gut and while being on the Buhner protocols the bacteria that is dying can re-circulate back into my body instead of being excreted out of my body.

Overall I really liked her. But I do have one major question, if causing inflammation will prevent the protocols from working, why doesn’t Buhner address this in any of his books??
Posted 8/16/2018 2:52 PM (GMT 0)
I believe Buhner talks a lot about inflammation in his book on Mycoplasma. He also has specific supplements for inflammation and leaky gut in his updated Lyme book. I've tried the golden milk before bed and i think it helped some, but it took time to make and it was hard for me to drink after a while so i stopped. You might want to look into it though
Posted 8/16/2018 9:33 PM (GMT 0)
I understand your question about Buhner. I think the real answer is he's not a micro-manager. It's just not his style. He doesn't tell everything that could possibly be told. If he did, his books would be 4 inches thick!! He does give warnings about some things, but if you read his books you find he doesn't get hyped up over a lot of the things that other groups elevate as super important.
Posted 8/16/2018 10:17 PM (GMT 0)
Was this the place in Hebron, by chance?
Posted 8/16/2018 10:55 PM (GMT 0)
I thought most of the herbs are big time anti inflammatories also though? Almost every single one if I recall? Do you feel like your joints are inflames when you're on the herbs?
Posted 8/17/2018 9:33 AM (GMT 0)
from Healing Lyme, 2nd edition, by Stephen Buhner, p. 191, "there is no one thing that always has to happen first, be treated first, or that you must always do or must never do in order to get well........There is no one-size-fits-all treatment that will work for all people in all times or all places. Anyone who says there is, is either trying to sell you something, has powerful self-image needs involved, or doesn't really understand the borellial group of infectious organisms."

And, I would add, many of the herbs in Buhner's basic protocol are anti-inflammatory, and not just general anti-inflammatory, but chosen because they address the specific ways that Lyme causes inflammation and other symptoms.

So, I'm afraid the practitioner you saw is not really up to speed on what Buhner is all about. I strongly suggest getting the book, even if all you can manage at first is to read chapter 8 where the basic protocol is, and start. If you want to use pharmaceuticals with it, you may need an MD to prescribe them, but sometimes the claims made by practitioners are pretty inflated. Any MD can call themselves Lyme literate, but there's no regulation, and the unscrupulous can use it just to get more patients, even if they know nothing about treating Lyme.
Posted 8/17/2018 12:14 PM (GMT 0)

cppoly said...
Well this was an interesting appointment. I saw a Buhner herbalist in CT and brought my protocol sheet with me that I’ve been on for the past 2 1/2 months for lyme, babesia, mycoplasma, and bartonella.

Before we discussed it, she reviewed my food allergy panel. Her take on my whole situtation why I wasn't seeing any improvement was that since I’ve been eating foods that I have a high sensitivity to on a daily basis, I’ve been creating unnecessary inflammation within my body which is preventing the protocols from working. She also mentioned that the inflammation can cause leaky gut and while being on the Buhner protocols the bacteria that is dying can re-circulate back into my body instead of being excreted out of my body.

Overall I really liked her. But I do have one major question, if causing inflammation will prevent the protocols from working, why doesn’t Buhner address this in any of his books??

I think most of the responses here are missing the whole point. I interpret the herbalist's point to be if you have been eating foods you are sensitive to, it is causing leaky gut, which means you have holes in your intestines, allowing anything you swallow to go places God never intended and creating more inflammation.

If you had food sensitivities testing, then stop eating the foods you are sensitive to and work on healing your gut. Buhner has advice on that, too. Once you heal and seal the gut, you will be in better shape to respond to the protocols.

I wouldn't doubt if food sensitivities and leaky gut are part of my problem, too, but I've never been tested.

Is the herbalist helping you with the food sensitivities and leaky gut? If so, let her help you.
Posted 8/17/2018 1:25 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for responses.

Yes she was in Hebron. Any advice, have been you been?

Good points about the protocol being anti-inflammatory to begin with and I will bring this up on my next visit. But I agree with walkingbyfaith that if unnecessary inflammation is created, on a daily basis, it can be preventing the protocols from working, especially with leaky gut.

I had a prior food allergy panel done before coming and showed it to her at my first appointment and that was her take away with why the Buhner protocols weren't working.

She also said she always tests for this as anyway so it was good that I had it with me, but she will re-test to see where I'm at.

I'm just very disappointed that the 2 1/2 months I've been on the protocols were a complete waste if this is true. That's like $2,000 I've spent so far.

Post Edited (cppoly) : 8/17/2018 7:28:08 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/17/2018 1:37 PM (GMT 0)
i haven't been at this as long as some of you all but i think the main thing that i get is that no one has all of the answers.

i've witnessed it myself as well as through reading other people's stories that doctors, herbalists, llmd's, etc... struggle with the answers that patients want. they are human too and are possibly prone to making it up as they go, so who knows?

sometimes these remedies work and sometimes they don't. we are all different people dealing with different issues so it's hard to nail anything down. it took me 2.5 months just to feel like anything was working at all and then it's happened gradually.

i don't take anyone's word as fact anymore regarding these illnesses.
Posted 8/17/2018 2:13 PM (GMT 0)
Lotuslight- yes but if she is having inflammatory reaction everytime she eats, the potential to subside the job of herbs is there.
Posted 8/17/2018 2:16 PM (GMT 0)

cppoly said...
Thanks for responses.

Yes she was in Hebron. Any advice, have been you been?

Good points about the protocol being anti-inflammatory to begin with and I will bring this up on my next visit. But I agree with walkingbyfaith that if unnecessary inflammation is created, on a daily basis, it can be preventing the protocols from working, especially with leaky gut.

I had a prior food allergy panel done before coming and showed it to her at my first appointment and that was her take away with why the Buhner protocols weren't working.

She also said she always tests for this as anyway so it was good that I had it with me, but she will re-test to see where I'm at.

I'm just very disappointed that the 2 1/2 months I've been on the protocols were a complete waste if this is true. That's like $2,000 I've spent so far.

Yes, i went there for a while. I tried to see her but she was really booked so i saw Dr Y. I didn't have any improvement after several months there but im also a really severe and complicated case
Posted 8/17/2018 2:17 PM (GMT 0)
Obviously burner never considered this possibility and that's alright because its true, he can't possibly know every possibility that could interfere with treatment. But, food sensitivities are so common and destructive that it could obviously interfere with your treatment. I think you are on the right track with that doctor.
Posted 8/17/2018 2:24 PM (GMT 0)

cppoly said...
Thanks for responses.

Yes she was in Hebron. Any advice, have been you been?

Good points about the protocol being anti-inflammatory to begin with and I will bring this up on my next visit. But I agree with walkingbyfaith that if unnecessary inflammation is created, on a daily basis, it can be preventing the protocols from working, especially with leaky gut.

I had a prior food allergy panel done before coming and showed it to her at my first appointment and that was her take away with why the Buhner protocols weren't working.

She also said she always tests for this as anyway so it was good that I had it with me, but she will re-test to see where I'm at.

I'm just very disappointed that the 2 1/2 months I've been on the protocols were a complete waste if this is true. That's like $2,000 I've spent so far.

No. Not a complete waste. First if all 2 1/2 mths is a very short amount of time. It was 4.5 mths before I had any improvement, and that was brief. I'm also a hard case. I can only take tiny doses of most things.

Please tell me $2,000 was not for 2.5 months of herbs. That included doctors or testing, too, right?
Posted 8/17/2018 2:33 PM (GMT 0)
Walkingbyfaith, it definitely was for the herbs =) these things are crazy expensive.

How do I upload a PDF, it'll show my protocol - you might not believe it how much am taking. I'm on full protocol and full max dosages for lyme, babesia, bartonella, and mycoplasma. I only have positive blood work for lyme and babesia which is expensive enough but also on bartonella protocol because of insomnia and I'm trying to cover all possibilities. Also through a prior LLMD, mycoplasma was found to have entered my brain, heart, and lungs through bioresonance scanning. Although this is not exactly scientific proof but also to added mycoplasma protocol to be safe.
Posted 8/17/2018 3:41 PM (GMT 0)

cppoly said...
Walkingbyfaith, it definitely was for the herbs =) these things are crazy expensive.

How do I upload a PDF, it'll show my protocol - you might not believe it how much am taking. I'm on full protocol and full max dosages for lyme, babesia, bartonella, and mycoplasma. I only have positive blood work for lyme and babesia which is expensive enough but also on bartonella protocol because of insomnia and I'm trying to cover all possibilities. Also through a prior LLMD, mycoplasma was found to have entered my brain, heart, and lungs through bioresonance scanning. Although this is not exactly scientific proof but also to added mycoplasma protocol to be safe.

Wow!!! That's a ton of herbs.

What did the herbalist say about you doing so many full protocols at the same time?

What has 2.5 mths of treatment been like for you? Did you have any imorovements? Herxing? Worsened or new symptoms?

Sorry if you already told all that in another post. I just can't remember.
Posted 8/17/2018 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
cppoly - - i have been seeing her since nov 2016...
I love love her & I absolutely thing you should listen to your body and if you have food sensitivities - - try and do your best to stay away from those foods.
honestly i myself have spend over $8,000 sad already and still working towards healing - - not fully healed yet sad ANd im starting to get impatient sad

i do see her soon so hopefully we are getting to the last stretch.

I have also been incorporating a lot of anti-inflammatory foods in my diet, and started to listen to my body to stay away form things that would give me migraines or other symptoms.

ccppoly & Aerose91 - - do you mind if send you both an e-mail? I want to discuss some things off the forum..

smilesmilesmile Happy Healing!!
Posted 8/17/2018 5:03 PM (GMT 0)
WalkingbyFaith - thankfully she was very surprised that I was taking so many things and cut my list down by HALF (although if you follow the books and you want to be strict, I didn't add anything unnecessary that wasn't listed in the protocols). So this is a nice cost savings going forward. 2.5 months of treatment did not help my only symptom (chronic insomnia waking up 30 - 60 times per night) at all. I've never herxed in my life. And never worsened my symptoms (just gradually got worse and worse over a 10 year period). Nothing has ever helped either, not even .1%. And I've tried probably over 50 things included medications, over the counters, etc.

LymeWarrior - you can e-mail me. I'm interested in your experience as well.
Posted 8/17/2018 7:13 PM (GMT 0)

LymeWarrior21 said...
cppoly - - i have been seeing her since nov 2016...
I love love her & I absolutely thing you should listen to your body and if you have food sensitivities - - try and do your best to stay away from those foods.
honestly i myself have spend over $8,000 sad already and still working towards healing - - not fully healed yet sad ANd im starting to get impatient sad

i do see her soon so hopefully we are getting to the last stretch.

I have also been incorporating a lot of anti-inflammatory foods in my diet, and started to listen to my body to stay away form things that would give me migraines or other symptoms.

ccppoly & Aerose91 - - do you mind if send you both an e-mail? I want to discuss some things off the forum..

smilesmilesmile Happy Healing!!

Sure, send one over
Posted 8/17/2018 8:18 PM (GMT 0)
I have an appt in Hebron but the earliest I could get was next March. Good to know I should get my diet and gut right before loading up on the herbs. I think I'm going to just try the Rawls restore and gut protocol while I wait for my appt.

Ccpoly- is the insomnia the only symptom you ever had?
Posted 8/17/2018 8:40 PM (GMT 0)
Yup, it's the most devastating symptom. I have maybe 3 other symptoms but they're relatively minor and may or may not be caused by lyme.
Posted 8/18/2018 3:34 AM (GMT 0)

cppoly said...
Walkingbyfaith, it definitely was for the herbs =) these things are crazy expensive.

How do I upload a PDF, it'll show my protocol - you might not believe it how much am taking. I'm on full protocol and full max dosages for lyme, babesia, bartonella, and mycoplasma. I only have positive blood work for lyme and babesia which is expensive enough but also on bartonella protocol because of insomnia and I'm trying to cover all possibilities. Also through a prior LLMD, mycoplasma was found to have entered my brain, heart, and lungs through bioresonance scanning. Although this is not exactly scientific proof but also to added mycoplasma protocol to be safe.

It feels like people don't realize how expensive full doses of Buhner's herbs are
Posted 8/18/2018 3:46 AM (GMT 0)

Aerose91 said...

cppoly said...
Walkingbyfaith, it definitely was for the herbs =) these things are crazy expensive.

How do I upload a PDF, it'll show my protocol - you might not believe it how much am taking. I'm on full protocol and full max dosages for lyme, babesia, bartonella, and mycoplasma. I only have positive blood work for lyme and babesia which is expensive enough but also on bartonella protocol because of insomnia and I'm trying to cover all possibilities. Also through a prior LLMD, mycoplasma was found to have entered my brain, heart, and lungs through bioresonance scanning. Although this is not exactly scientific proof but also to added mycoplasma protocol to be safe.

It feels like people don't realize how expensive full doses of Buhner's herbs are

Yep. It's too bad insurance won't cover things like herbs. When I was taking abx and herbs, it was the herbs and supplements that were breaking the bank.
Posted 8/20/2018 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Sandy,

She reduced my protocols for lyme, babesia, Bartonella, and mycoplasma down to:

NAC, milk thistle, Japanese knotweed, ashwagandha, cryptolesis, cordyceps, artemesia, cat’s claw, houttuynia, Chinese skullcap, sida acuta, teasel, and alchornea.

Post Edited (cppoly) : 8/20/2018 7:21:22 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/21/2018 2:35 PM (GMT 0)
Buhners entire protocol is about addressing inflammation. Even though some of his herbs are strongly antibacterial he puts very little emphasis on those modes of action and almost complete emphasis on their anti inflammatory potential. Hence all his talk about cytokine cascades
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply