Dapsone/Daraprim - Cycle 3, 4, and 5 PLUS....

I believe he’ll be releasing results of test group in Dec. If this works it could end up being the new protocol for chronic lyme. Dr h is in a working group with IDSA and they are finally having conversations.

>>if/when they prescribe this to me im gonna be scared to take it.

don't get yourself worked up. as i said earlier i took dapsone 1 week a cycle for 6 cycles (months) and i'm fine. it hit me hard the first cycle, less so the second, by the 4th didn't do much. it did seem to help me turn a corner on one of my symptoms.

i've been doing bactrim for almost 2 years its a good broad based drug i know Dr. J likes it cause its a replacement for treating babesia for those who can do artemisinin (once you get past the mepron/malarone heavy killing). it's also a combo abx. it also may hit persisters and bart.

Good luck girlie im sure u'lll be fine ..my friend was on dap doing ok the 5 months in a sudden red man like syndrome. She needed roids and a few months off treatment .

For me bactrim , im not sure if it was subsequent nerve damage from the killing of bart or a true sulfa allergy. My nurse thinks i had a mild sjs and sulfa induced vasculitis . The wasting and circulation may never come back ... i count myself lucky when i hear the bryan deer stories and wonder why its banned in some countries ...

Now im all for extreme circumstances call for extreme measures. Just remember the point of antibiotics is to stop life. Dap does this by a folate block whick kills bacteria ...problem is all cells need folate ...please be careful girlie

Charlie55 said...

Girlie said...
ummm...changing my mind again about the Dapsone.

I googled it - ie deaths...etc. It's bad. Not a lot of reported deaths but still some ...and some ugly/scarey photos of bad reactions.
Skin lesions...similar to what you see for SJS.

Darparim doesn't have the same risks...so maybe just no dapsone.
I just showed my husband some pictures on Dapsone sites and he told me not to take it.
Then he said "I don't want to see those pictures" lol.

You start mixing and matching Dapsone with other drugs and antibiotics, most likely increases your chances to hypersensitivity syndrome. But from my understanding and reading some of the studies, it's still rare and mostly likely from being on Dapsone a long time, as well as like I said, mixing it with multiple drugs.

Even if Dapsone doesn't put you in remission Girlie, look at it as an important stepping stone in your treatment. Dapsone helped me tremendously, both with neuro lyme and getting deep into the tissue to target spirochetes other drugs didn't do much for me. I saw both my spine and sciatica symptoms disappear after being on Dapsone. As well as taking Disulfiram solo down the line... These persister drugs have helped a lot of patients from what I've read, me being one of them...

I just worry about when Dr. J and Dr. H start mixing and matching them with other drugs, especially when a drug like Dapsone has severe side effects. Personally, I wouldn't be on Dapsone no longer than month, but that's just me. Very toxic drug, at least it makes me feel that way.

But hey, I would listen to Dr. J and Dr. H, they're the leading LLMDs.

bluelyme said...
10 days of bactrim messed me up for my whole life ! I think u thank the stars for your hubby....its not worth it ...my friend still hasnt recovered from her dapsone incident

I'm curious bluelyme, what do you mean by that? I know some of the fluoroquinolone antibiotics can put damage to your tendons and nerves, but with time, I'm sure your body could repair itself.

I know when I take Bactrim, it made my arthritis worse, brought out sore back pain in some areas. It's a very high potent sulfamethoxazol drug, aka sulfur. My understanding is that sulfur is a drying agent, if you ever smelt the stuff, it just smells like it would dry a damp cave out, lol... Most likely why it causes pain for me in my joints, because it removes the lubrication... I'm wondering if that did that for you???

When I take Bactrim now, after taking many of the persister cell drugs, which I suspect dug deep and killed off a lot of the deep spirochetes hiding, especially disulfiram after looking at the half life of that drug... I no longer get joint pain taking this drug, however, my back still gets sore.

I also think certain antibiotics and drugs, especially something like disulfiram wakes up dormant cells... What I mean is, it may seem like an antibiotic did permanent damage to your body, but it may have woken up dormant cells and you may feel worse, because it reactivates your immune system which starts targeting the active spirochetes again, in result inflammation may flare up again, as well as fatigue and other symptoms...

As the old saying with lyme patients, you'll feel worse before you get better. This may also relate to these new persister cell drugs like disulfiram, maybe even dapsone too, which may wake up dormant cells and make you feel worse. As time progresses with treatment you should feel better. Doing detox methods to flush out the herx toxins and antibiotics that build up over time in your body is a must.

By the way, Bactrim was also labeled a persister cell drug on the John Hopkins list. Not surprising, since there was a lot of talk over in Europe about the Gasser protocol helped some patients reach remission. It consisted of Bactrim paired up with Roxithromycin in super high dosages, almost intolerable. I tried it once and I've tolerated a lot of drugs, I have no clue how anyone could function in their life doing roxithromycin 300 mg and trimethoprim/sulphamethoxazole 320 mg/1600 mg twice daily... I guess if you have someone to cook your food, lay on the couch all day like a vegetable.

Anyways, I could see the roxy and bactrim even working at low dosage considering roxy crosse the blood brain barrier, I'm sure this combo could still help some, but the protocol is pretty much dead in the states since they don't make roxithromycin here in the states...

I really hope this dapsone/daraprim protocol helps you Girlie... I would definitely add in some Stevia liquid from a Stevia tincture in collaboration with the xylitol/lactoferrin.

Charlie - I don't recall you taking the Dapsone. What did you take with it? And what was your dosing schedule - how much and was it daily?
Everyone talks about these drugs as being 'new'. I think Dr. J. has been prescribing them the longest - saw an older thread from either 2011 or 2013...someone seeing Dr. J taking them.

I got some lesions from the Bactrim...and decided not to take it anymore. They didn't resemble any rash I've had.
Just sporadic lesions - with a centre in them...

physedgirl09 said...
man this makes me confused cuz im a patient at the J Clinic and if/when they prescribe this to me im gonna be scared to take it.... I hate this crap so much. Ive tolerated every med I have been on so far...so who knows

You may not need to go on it...not everyone does. If you continue to progress on the other protocols...

Where are you at now...I can't remember - are you doing the 5 days in a row for one week on Mepron? (and 3 days another week? plus the biofilm treatment?)

Girlie said...


Charlie - I don't recall you taking the Dapsone. What did you take with it? And what was your dosing schedule - how much and was it daily?
Everyone talks about these drugs as being 'new'. I think Dr. J. has been prescribing them the longest - saw an older thread from either 2011 or 2013...someone seeing Dr. J taking them.

I did it beginning of last year of 2017... I started off in low dosages, just taking 25mg of Dapsone daily with a boat load of stevia... For a whole 2 weeks, I felt normal, like my old self. Tons of energy, waking up from sleep like a new person, all fatigue and symptoms gone. After about 2-3 weeks, some of the fatigue came back... It became hard to tolerate it so I went off of it after about a month, took a break, then went back on again.

I would go on and off of it for around 3-4 months or so... And try to build up to 100mg a day, along with taking a lot of folic acid. I never had much success taking it over a month, because it's hard to tolerate and the violent fatigue you get from it. I know Dr. H prescribes certain drugs to reverse the fatigue and prevent your red blood cell count from dropping....

This year I tried taking it in high dosages, even tried taking it with rifampin and doxy, it's not easy to tolerate, but I tolarate Dapsone a lot better than I did last year. However, I don't herx as effectively when I take it now... Has the borrelia bacteria developed some resistance? Did dapsone wipe out the majority of the infection?

Maybe a little bit of both, but again, this was a major stepping stone for me and helped me out tremendously. I no longer have some symptoms I had before....

bluelyme said...

For me bactrim , im not sure if it was subsequent nerve damage from the killing of bart or a true sulfa allergy. My nurse thinks i had a mild sjs and sulfa induced vasculitis . The wasting and circulation may never come back ... i count myself lucky when i hear the bryan deer stories and wonder why its banned in some countries ...

Thanks for sharing bluelyme, sorry to hear about the sever side effects, I hope one day the circulation comes back. I didn't know it's banned in some countries, I'll have to look that up.

physedgirl09 said...
man this makes me confused cuz im a patient at the J Clinic and if/when they prescribe this to me im gonna be scared to take it.... I hate this crap so much. Ive tolerated every med I have been on so far...so who knows

You're in the best hands, Dr. Js is one of the leading lyme literate Doctors, I would put a lot of trust in them physedgirl09.

Personally, I'd only take Dapsone for a month because I don't have the drugs they use to reverse anemia, as well as all other things. I'm sure Dr. J will test your blood for possibly every week and keep an eye on you!

It's pretty cool you get to see one of the leading physicians, I wish I had the money and access(live close) to Dr. J, just keep hope and do what he says. If the drug becomes way to hard to tolerate, take a break, then try getting back on it again.

I think breaks are good, not only to help flush out toxins and the antibiotics that build up in your body, but it allows the bacteria to come out of hiding and you can hit it hard again. However, I think these persister cell drugs are most effective in the beginning, the plan should be hit the infection as hard and long in the beginning as you can, then down the line you can do pulsing and take breaks...

But listen to what Dr. J says and take everything what we say with a grain of salt, he is one of the leading physicians in treating Chronic Lyme Disease.

Girlie said...


I'm doing okay...I do have some increased pain...but I did take the Dapsone late afternoon yesterday.

And it's got a loooonnnngggg half-life.

Yes it does, I think I mentioned that a few months ago in one of my posts... So it builds up in the system quite efficiently, that's why I personally would only take it for a month at longest...

They say 10 to 50 hours, but it could be longer than that, as well as depending on the individual...

What helped me to flush Dapsone out as well as detox was baking soda with water drinks, as well as smoking marijuana. Believe it or not, I felt that cannabis and the cannabinoids helped flush out toxins. You look up thinks cannabis can do, it's a great detox plant, when planted in the soil I heard it can even remove radiation from the soil. There's probably thousands of patients that swear by it when treating with chemo and radiation, they claim it helps them tolerate these drugs. Just something to think about girlie, since Cannabis just got approved recreationally in your country...

There's some days I wake up feeling a million bucks after smoking cannabis the night before, it helps me sleep like a baby, and I believe it helps heal the body and detox. I smoke indica dominant strain, it causes you to get very sleepy, probably not good to take it during the day if you're looking to get some work done, but you can still just take it every night, to detox and help you go to bed.

I was never an advocate for cannabis, until I started using it about 3 years ago, first starting off with CBD oil. Without a doubt, I herx when smoking marijuana too. Honestly, I think it may help to kill of biofilms, the cannabinoids are definitely doing something. And it's not like you have to smoke it, many other ways to absorb the cannabinoids into your body... Vaping cannabis, both from oil cartridges or vape machines, like the volcano.

But hey, it's not for everyone, cannabis gets you deep thinking and makes you start thinking about death and other things. Some people get extremely paranoid while being on it. Scientists are just starting to discover what cannabinoids can do to the brain... It's definitely doing something! The stereotype was that cannabis kills brain cells, come to find out, it may actually do the exact opposite according to professor Raphael Mechoulam....
https://youtu.be/AccREj2l7c4?t=676

And if you think the half life is bad on dapsone girlie, if Dapsone stops working effectively, try and get Dr. J to give you Disilfram, lol... It's supposedly between 60 to 120 hours!

There's without a doubt, something that makes these persister cell drugs work so effectively, it just may be the fact that they absorb into the body well and half a strong half life, which allows you to saturate the tissue in your body.

Disulfiram helped me a lot and I believe it helped wake up things in my brain, I never felt before when I took a pharmaceutical antibiotic. It felt like my brain started twitching, the skin and tissue around my head, even my face. Disulfiram has known to have good penetration in the blood brain barrier... I wish more LLMDs start using this drug to wake up dorman persister cells, I firmly believe it works, I don't know if Dr. J is using it yet, I heard Dr. H was.... At least that's what I heard on Facebook...

I also think Bactrim stays in the system a lot longer than what scientists and Doctors say... They say it's around 10 hours, I think it's a lot longer than that, from my own experience of using the antibiotic. You notice how with both Disulfiram and Dapsone they give you a range, like 10-50 hours... 60-120 hours... At least thats what they gave when I looked up these drugs, I think there should be an estimated half life range for Bactrim too, because I felt it stayed in my system a lot longer than what they claimed, especially when I took it in higher dosages...

And again, Bactrim was also listed in the John Hopkins study as a persister cell killer, interesting... I think we're starting to see a pattern here with drugs that have a long half life....

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 10/18/2018 7:03:56 AM (GMT-6)

k07 said...
I think taking it at the dosages and limited frequency that Dr. J is prescribing it is pretty safe. Dr. H is really pushing the envelope with the 200 mg for 8 weeks. However, if this is a cure, then so be it. I wish I could check into a hospital for 8 weeks and be done with it! He mentions his wife and Olivia (from livlyme foundation - who's only 13), are both completely symptom free now. There's also the guy that accidentally took the double dose which started all this - he's symptom free. He does say it is early so we need to be cautious.

What is also exciting is he has put together a 5 drug, short-term protocol for bartonella too. Hopefully lots of good research and studies will come out in 2019.

Yes, I like the fact they thinking on the lines of hitting the infection hard, with higher dosages and shorter treatment span. I couldn't imagine being on Dapsone for a year or longer, that's what I think what patients with Leprosy have to go through.

As we've learned, pulsing, going on and off antibiotics for Lyme Disease is quite effective. Leprosy is different in that aspect, so Lyme Disease may need a different protocol. As well if you consider the coinfections invloved, as well as the different ways borrelia can adapt and change physically...

I think a lot of LLMDs need to get it out of there head of treating longterm with the same antibiotic protocol for 6-12 months or longer. I see how Dr. J treats now, he's rotating antibiotics and drugs like crazy, it's like both daily and weekly.

Borrelia and its coinfections like Babesia just adapt to these drugs way to fast, different than any infection that we've ever treated. Biofilms are a big part, but as we've learned, again, borrelia can change it's physical form and adapt.

k07 if I were you, I'd also incorporate this stevia tincture into your protocol, it's very potent form of Stevia. I felt it immediately work when taken with dapsone..... I don't use another brand, only this one. I know Dr. J has his own biofilm busters, but this particular stevia helped me a lot, costs like $10...
https://www.amazon.com/sweetleaf-stevia-stevia-concentrate-oz/dp/b00016rh6s/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=utf8&qid=1539868602&sr=8-6&keywords=sweetleaf%2bwhole%2bleaf%2bstevia&th=1

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 10/18/2018 7:16:31 AM (GMT-6)

Charlie said:
"Personally, I'd only take Dapsone for a month because I don't have the drugs they use to reverse anemia, as well as all other things. I'm sure Dr. J will test your blood for possibly every week and keep an eye on you!

It's pretty cool you get to see one of the leading physicians, I wish I had the money and access(live close) to Dr. J, just keep hope and do what he says. If the drug becomes way to hard to tolerate, take a break, then try getting back on it again.

I think breaks are good, not only to help flush out toxins and the antibiotics that build up in your body, but it allows the bacteria to come out of hiding and you can hit it hard again. However, I think these persister cell drugs are most effective in the beginning, the plan should be hit the infection as hard and long in the beginning as you can, then down the line you can do pulsing and take breaks...

But listen to what Dr. J says and take everything what we say with a grain of salt, he is one of the leading physicians in treating Chronic Lyme Disease."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A month isn't long enough because Dr. J. has you taking it for just one week per month...so I have been prescribe it for 4 months at this point.
Blood is tested only once a month...it follows the week that I take the Dapsone/Daraprim.

I travel a long way to see Dr. J. I'm on the West Coast of the continent. Just an FYI - you do know that you don't have to fly every time to see him...there are phone appts for people who live further away.
Plus the appts are generally 3-4 months apart...I only travelled there twice this year. And won't be traveling again to the clinic until spring of 2019.

Charlie55 said...

k07 said...
I think taking it at the dosages and limited frequency that Dr. J is prescribing it is pretty safe. Dr. H is really pushing the envelope with the 200 mg for 8 weeks. However, if this is a cure, then so be it. I wish I could check into a hospital for 8 weeks and be done with it! He mentions his wife and Olivia (from livlyme foundation - who's only 13), are both completely symptom free now. There's also the guy that accidentally took the double dose which started all this - he's symptom free. He does say it is early so we need to be cautious.

What is also exciting is he has put together a 5 drug, short-term protocol for bartonella too. Hopefully lots of good research and studies will come out in 2019.

Yes, I like the fact they thinking on the lines of hitting the infection hard, with higher dosages and shorter treatment span. I couldn't imagine being on Dapsone for a year or longer, that's what I think what patients with Leprosy have to go through.

As we've learned, pulsing, going on and off antibiotics for Lyme Disease is quite effective. Leprosy is different in that aspect, so Lyme Disease may need a different protocol. As well if you consider the coinfections invloved, as well as the different ways borrelia can adapt and change physically...

I think a lot of LLMDs need to get it out of there head of treating longterm with the same antibiotic protocol for 6-12 months or longer. I see how Dr. J treats now, he's rotating antibiotics and drugs like crazy, it's like both daily and weekly.

Borrelia and its coinfections like Babesia just adapt to these drugs way to fast, different than any infection that we've ever treated. Biofilms are a big part, but as we've learned, again, borrelia can change it's physical form and adapt.

k07 if I were you, I'd also incorporate this stevia tincture into your protocol, it's very potent form of Stevia. I felt it immediately work when taken with dapsone..... I don't use another brand, only this one. I know Dr. J has his own biofilm busters, but this particular stevia helped me a lot, costs like $10...
https://www.amazon.com/sweetleaf-stevia-stevia-concentrate-oz/dp/b00016rh6s/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=utf8&qid=1539868602&sr=8-6&keywords=sweetleaf%2bwhole%2bleaf%2bstevia&th=1

With Dr. J's protocols...you do stay on the same protocol generally for 3-4 months.
You're usually on 3 or 4 abx OR an anti-malarial plus 2 abx.

The persister protocol - it's changed up more. ie My Week 1, 2 and 3 are different. The persister protocol is also the Bartonella protocol.

Charlie55 said...

Girlie said...


Dr. J just prescribes the leucovorin (folic acid) with the pyrimethamine. 10 mg per day to you don't get the Methemoglobinemia - which is a very serious reaction - emergency.

So the Daraprim has a half life of 96 hours...so that's even longer than the Dapsone.

Yep, that folic acid prescription drug is key for going longterm with Dapsone, as well as patients that have cancer and go on chemo and radiation longterm.

Sadly not everyone has access to it, so I stick to being on Daspone no longer than a month, what I was hinting to. And taking large doses of over the counter folic acid vitamins.

Just the plane ticket or car ride over to Dr. J's clinic is unaffordable by most, let alone if you're insurance will cover each or phone appointment.

There's those of us who have spent every nickel and dime in beginning treatment, treatment that barely helped, compared to what we know today with these new persister cell drugs and biofilm busters like xylitol and stevia. None of this was known when I began treatment or was in middle of treatment.

It's great that these new protocols are becoming more frequently talked on the forums, because I've been seeing some Lyme patients already giving up hope, when there's much better treatment out there compared to 5-10 years ago.

These persister cell threads need to keep going... Not only to educate patients, but give them hope, because there's a lot of patients that don't have a lot of direction.

If you're able to get the Dapsone...how come you can't get the Leucovorin? You must have someone who is prescribing you the Dapsone, right? Is there a problem taking the larger doses of Folic Acid? or is there concern it won't convert as well as the leucovorin?

Re: travelling to Dr. J. Yes, it's expensive for me - very.... In addition to flying across the continent (three flights each way) hotels, meals, appt cost, labs that I can't get here, there's the U.S./Canada $$ exchange.

But...regarding cost of treatment. My biggest financial loss is inability to work. And in order to work I have to get better.
So, NOT going to Dr. J sooner...has most likely cost me more ....as I would have progressed further...sooner.
I was stalled out for a long time with previous LLND. And, he wasn't going to give me Babesia treatment.

In the end NOT going to Dr. J has cost me way more money than the cost of the trips.

My main expense with this illness is from being off work.

Girlie said...

If you're able to get the Dapsone...how come you can't get the Leucovorin?

I've talked with you about this before, but maybe it was with other members on this forum, lets just say there's a lot of lyme patients right now getting there prescriptions black market lets say... And don't always have access to all the different drugs.

Reality of it is what was being portrayed in the Dallas Buyers Club movie... I don't think there's much more that needs to be talked about, lets just leave it at that!

This is the reason the majority of patients get stuck just treating with over the counter herbs, which in my opinion can help, but not going to help you get to the point where I'm at now... Which is pretty much fully functional!

Girlie said...

Is there a problem taking the larger doses of Folic Acid? or is there concern it won't convert as well as the leucovorin?

Yep, basically that, the over counter folic acid doesn't help that much. I've tried the more bioactive methyl folate, made me feel very sick. Maybe I'll try some other brands out...

Girlie said...


Re: travelling to Dr. J. Yes, it's expensive for me - very.... In addition to flying across the continent (three flights each way) hotels, meals, appt cost, labs that I can't get here, there's the U.S./Canada $$ exchange.

But...regarding cost of treatment. My biggest financial loss is inability to work. And in order to work I have to get better.
So, NOT going to Dr. J sooner...has most likely cost me more ....as I would have progressed further...sooner.
I was stalled out for a long time with previous LLND. And, he wasn't going to give me Babesia treatment.

In the end NOT going to Dr. J has cost me way more money than the cost of the trips.

My main expense with this illness is from being off work.

So sorry to hear all that Girlie, believe me, you're doing the right thing and hopefully you're cutting your longterm treatment of chronic lyme disease in half by doing all this. Maybe speeding up recovery even faster... I mean everyone responds differently to the drugs and what stage of chronic lyme you're in...

Girlie said...

I can't afford it. I have debt that keeps growing. Plus, have remortgaged our home...

I understand that some people don't have an option - ie don't have a home they own...or can't get credit cards.

I just wish I had gone sooner...because I'm there now...and what a lot of wasted time....

Dr. J has had xylitol in his protocols for many years now...when did you start treatment?
I guess maybe other LLMD's weren't prescribing it?

Yeah sorry to put it that way, when I said "only for the rich," I mean I know there's patients sacrificing everything to get the best treatment from the top lyme literate physicians. So again, I'm sorry for putting it that way, but it's just the reality of what's going on in the US.

There's those of us in my generation that went out, got our degrees, got in debt, received good jobs, but then came down with a chronic illness that ended up permanently sinking us.

Anyways, it's hard not talking about these things and not going in depth, when you're wondering how and why I have to get my hands on persister cell prescription drug like Dapsone.

Maybe next few years, Dr. Horrowitz will finally reach some of the Doctors on the Tick-Borne Disease Working Group... However, I've seen what some of these Doctors have stated, one basically stated that it's going to take a lot for him to prescribe an antibiotic like Pyrazinamide to lyme patients. So progress is still very slow educating Doctors about chronic lyme and what's going to be need to treat longterm. And after seeing Dr. Kim Lewis's theory that chronic lyme is due to an imbalance microbiome....

There's those of us that don't have patience for these Doctors playing catchup to the science...

Sad, because I see the same thing going on climate change, where scientists and doctors are losing patience with the public educating them on the repercussions of climate change. It's both hypocritical and ironic, seeing the same thing go on with Chronic Lyme Disease and Doctors/Scientist... When some of these same scientists say Lyme is a direct result of Climate Change, lol.
https://www.thefirstepidemic.com

It leads me to believe they know that Lyme Disease is a direct result to what's going on and they're just leaving us to die... Chris Hedges just stated in his recent speech, that scientists basically said we have 10 years to save ourself as a human species.
https://youtu.be/moasdienbfw?t=2417

This guy is a Pulitzer Prize award winning journalist, I suggest you take every word he says very truthful and meaningful. I think this planet and human beings are a lot more resilient than he might think, but again, he wasn't the one who stated that 10 year thing on climate change, a group scientists were.

Joe Rogan had Neil Degrasse Tyson on, one of the main spokespersons in the public who talk about climate change, when they started to talk about Lyme Disease. You could tell Neil danced around the topic, not to say too much, but you could tell from his facial expressions and body movements, he knows what's going on and how bad it is.
https://youtu.be/vgc4mg5pul4?t=2h44m21s

Joe Rogan has 7 friends who have Lyme Disease, all without a doubt treat longterm with antibiotics. There's been numerous super huge celebrities come out talking about how Lyme Disease has stopped their music and movie careers, whether it's Avril Lavrigne and Shania Twain... Without a doubt, they've all taken longterm antibiotics to get better.

Yet here we are, 2018, tickborne group, these Doctors still stating longterm antibiotics won't help and all it is is a imbalanced microbiome, lol...

Anyways, just a little rant....

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 10/19/2018 11:17:41 AM (GMT-6)

And again, I recommend everyone watch the recent presentation Chris Hedges gave... This is about everything, climate change, the healthcare system, the upcoming recession that's probably going to happen.... Considering the recent stock market collapse this week.
https://youtu.be/moasdienbfw?t=2417

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 10/19/2018 11:38:58 AM (GMT-6)