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For those more or less healed with herbs...

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Posted 12/9/2018 7:47 PM (GMT 0)
Did you all get to the maximum dose 3 times a day?
Posted 12/10/2018 10:55 AM (GMT 0)
Sandyfeet is correct its finding the dose that works for you, there are some of the herbals I did work up to full doses but others I could only tolerate at lower doses like with Sida acuta, but it was still beneficial for me.

I also added or took breaks from certain ones but then added them back in again.

Treat the symptoms and the inflammation.
Posted 12/11/2018 1:33 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you both, the highest I’ve for to is 20 drops twice a day. I find that I feel ok for a few weeks then suddienky have a gush if new symptoms. Not sure how to interpret this? Herbs not working? Too high too low? Need to add in abx?
Posted 12/11/2018 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
It may be that you are reaching your toxin threshold after a few weeks of cumulatively killing pathogens... do the symptoms eventually improve if you stop the treatments? if that symptom pattern consistently repeats with the herbs in that timeframe it may be die-off issues.

Are you doing a lot of detoxing? that might help...
Posted 12/11/2018 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
Hi sebreg yes your spot on the symptoms usually ease off, I get worried so drop the dose of herbs, sometimes even skip them.

So if it’s a die off issue would that suggest I’m not detoxing enough?
Posted 12/11/2018 7:55 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah you might want to add in more detox if you can, that could increase your margins with treatment. And/or could try taking lower doses of the herbs, and only increase very gradually. Or could do like you are doing, and whenever you hit a rough patch just pull back from the antimicrobials until you stabilize again. But increasing various detox might prove helpful.
Posted 12/11/2018 8:04 PM (GMT 0)

Szabo246 said...
Hi sebreg yes your spot on the symptoms usually ease off, I get worried so drop the dose of herbs, sometimes even skip them.

So if it’s a die off issue would that suggest I’m not detoxing enough?

What are you currently doing for detox?

You want to detox daily...and more than one detox.
Posted 12/11/2018 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
the only thing I do daily is dry brush, I have Epsom bath 3 times a week and drink as much water as I can. Other than that I have activated charcoal I’d say twice a week.

I find it so hard fitting everything in.
Posted 12/11/2018 8:27 PM (GMT 0)
I hear you, managing the detox is quite a bit of work. What about lemon water (can add alka seltzer gold as well), that's kind of an easy one... I try to find easier ones I can do without much effort. NAC, ALA, glutathione can also be helpful. Burbur, pinella, dandelion tea...
Posted 12/11/2018 8:38 PM (GMT 0)
What’s NAC, and ALA? Dandelion tea is a good idea. I tried alka seltzer gold before but didn’t feel it did anything for me. Maybe I should give it another go.
Posted 12/11/2018 9:47 PM (GMT 0)
Szabo,

When I start something new, I often find I can tolerate it okay and start increasing doses. Then, around week 3, I start noticeably herxing and end up backing off the dosage or abandoning the new herb/supplement for a time. I think sebreg may be right about reaching a toxin threshold after a few weeks. For me, the herxing can take days to weeks to resolve even if I drop the herb altogether.

I do detoxing more frequently than you and take multiple binders daily. Upping detox does very little for me.

I would probably benefit greatly if I pulsed some of the highly antimicrobial herbs and supplements - like 4-5 days on then 2-3 days off. I would probably be more tolerant if I did that with new stuff. I’m pretty good with my main protocol, which is mostly tiny doses twice a day. It’s the extra stuff that puts me over the top after a few weeks. It’s so hard to pulse or take breaks when I can feel stuff working. Makes me want to keep going with it.

NAC and ALA increase the body’s production of glutathione, which is essential for detox. Stick with NAC if you have mercury amalgams or heavy metal toxicity. ALA can be dangerous if you have heavy metals (referring to Andy Cutler protocol).
Posted 12/11/2018 10:07 PM (GMT 0)

Szabo246 said...
What’s NAC, and ALA? Dandelion tea is a good idea. I tried alka seltzer gold before but didn’t feel it did anything for me. Maybe I should give it another go.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine

Alpha Lipoic Acid.


I take Jernigan's Neuro-AntitoxII CNS/PNS
Also - I started Quercetin a couple months ago...and it seems to be helping with my nerve issues.

I did try NAC and ALA - I didn't see any results ..
Posted 12/11/2018 10:20 PM (GMT 0)
My guess is if you can't tolerate the herbs you aren't healed. I was on Cowden and got to about 70% better and had no problems following the dosage schedule. Month 5 seemed to be when I healed the most and also had the most symptoms. After that I don't think I improved significantly.
Posted 12/12/2018 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Szabo, I remember you had symptoms somewhat similar to mine. I finally realized, after so many months of crazy, ever changing symptoms that it is due to constant mold exposure in the house I live in. My symptoms change with no rhyme or reason, there is no pattern, I felt I was the only person in the universe that couldn't tell what a herx is, because the change in my symptoms comes unrelated to protocol or detox change.
Mind you, the houses I lived in do not have that typical musty mouldy smell. Mould can be much more sneaky, it doesn't have to be "into your face".
I'd say houses in the UK have a big problem with mold, the climate is humid, there are these thick carpets everywhere that make things even worse, then if you get an appartment you can have a ventilation duct issue like I did.
I would explore this possibility.
Posted 12/12/2018 8:40 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you all, WBF - you make a good point about pulsing, I’d never considered it to be honest not sure why, think I read somewhere Buhner doesn’t recommend it, but then I end up dropping doses significantly and even skipping days when I get new symptoms so maybe if I pulsed It would eliminate that need.

Girlie- think I’m going to order me some quercitin. Is it in the bartonella protocol? Can it be taken same time as herbs?

Zimica- that’s a good point, I have a bit of mould in bathroom that I’ve asked my husband ( several times) to sort out. Could this be a reason? Who knows?! I never know am I herxing, am I just declining, my llmd is useless I’m thinking of going to a Chinese medicine specialist as I’m
Just self treating now.
Posted 12/12/2018 8:53 PM (GMT 0)
this is what I am doing this week:

chai loose leaf tea
with two Mesh Tea stainless steel bags
One has Chai
the other has 50/50 of Clove and Teasel
1 drop of Oil of Oregano
The oil does not mix so I use Almond Milk, which has an emulsifier and apparently braeks it down.
Then I add Stevia liquid drops.

This tastes reallly good btw. I have 4-6 cups so far this week.

Then I take 1 tea spoon of Japanse Knotweed
and 1 Tablespoon of Turmeric

right now on weekends, I take Doxycycline or Amoxicillin because I have itching.

I ordered a chair sauna, from inspiration from who posted the other day saying "I used just Teasel and Sauna"

I am hoping my Chai mix, along with upping the Oregano oil from 1 drop (this stuff is REALLY strong) to 2-3, 3x cups a day, might be my finishing mix for the next 4 months. I have not received the chair sauna yet but I will set it up in a few days and plan on using it everyday.

How much Oregono oil am I suppose to take? this stuff is REALLY strong
I have left out cat's claw because I can't figure out if it is helping "herx" or actually making me sick.
Posted 12/12/2018 11:18 PM (GMT 0)
What do you think the itching is due to? I’ve had itching too I thought it was a bart thing.

I’m also in the process of buying a portable infrared sauna, I just don’t know which one, I’ve seen a firzone one on amazon that I’m considering. Makes sense how the sauna helpsnin so many ways. The Clove and teasel... what are they essential oils? Or tinctures?

I don’t think I could handle a tablespoon of Jap knotweed! It would knock me out.
Posted 12/12/2018 11:35 PM (GMT 0)
The clove and Teasel are raw root. 1Lb or 454g for $20-30 each. Not tinctures or oil.
Teaspoon not tablespoon of knotweed. Japanese knotweed doesn't really do anything for me, is it suppose to make me tired?

I will get my sauna tomorrow. There is no such thing as infrared sauna, steam is steam. That one always makes me cringe. There's nothing special about heating water with light in fact it is less efficient. Basically it just means it uses a red lightbulb to heat water.
Posted 12/12/2018 11:52 PM (GMT 0)
I've heard bartonella is notorious for skin afflictions including itching for what it's worth.
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