Toxic (the Neil Nathan book)

Oh ok I found the chapter on bartonella but I don’t see one on lyme

WBF, from the book:

"The comprehensive treatment of Bartonella infection is beyond the scope of this book. I will provide some general principles for treatment, but patients must find physicians who are knowledgeable and trained in this area."

[...]

"LLMDs (Lyme Literate physicians)—the name given to physicians who are courageous enough to pursue treatment for their patients even when it is not fully sanctioned by the medical establishment—have tried to share information, but there is no absolute consensus on what constitutes the perfect treatment for Bartonella at this time. Treatment typically includes:

■ Antibiotics : Rifampin, Septra, azithromycin (Zithromax), and Clindamycin are commonly prescribed. (Cipro is also used, but we try to avoid it because of the recently recognized incidence of chronic tendonitis as a side effect; see here .) Combining these drugs with hydrosol silver (Argentyn 23) has worked well. The use of antibiotics also must include the regular use of probiotics. The well-recognized effects of antibiotics on intestinal bacterial balance, referred to as the gut microbiome (see Chapter 12 ), require that we supplement with probiotics to prevent this disruption.

■ Herbal supplements : The use of the A-Bart or Bar-1 tincture, described previously in the section on diagnosing Bartonella, is very helpful. In his excellent book Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections, Stephen Harrod Buhner outlines the herbal materials he has found most useful in treating Bartonella. His program, which is based on a deep understanding of how Bartonella affects the immune system, includes materials to reduce the inflammation created by inflammatory cytokines and support the organs and cells most affected by Bartonella, such as the spleen and red blood cells, along with herbs that have antibiotic properties.
Lee Cowden, MD, has developed a series of herbal tinctures that are specific to Bartonella. His company, NutraMedix, provides them. I have found Banderol and Houttynia to be particularly beneficial.

■ Homeopathic treatments : These include a series of tinctures made by Deseret Biologicals that are specific to Bartonella, which I have found valuable.

■ Electrical treatments: Variations on the Rife machine (see the sidebar below) and other similar treatments are available. Though sometimes helpful, these electrical treatments are often poorly tolerated by sensitive patients. I approach them with great care."

You're welcome Bailey!

Bailey -

Nathan's practice and book are for those of us who are told by LLMDs that we are "the most sensitive patient I've ever had" or that our cases are "very complicated." The ones who try the things other people try and react poorly, time after time. The ones who have tried various ways of treating tick-borne disease antimicrobially but make no progress or decline further. The ones for whom the usual treatments either aren't enough, or are too much to handle because of compounding variables like mast cell issues and environmental toxicity. His goal is stabilizing people to the point that their bodies can handle the antimicrobial treatments they may need. Some people's bodies even begin to keep infections in check on their own once the various types of inflammation and dysfunction have calmed down. He does not detail how to treat Lyme in the book Toxic because for his patients it's not the #1 thing to address (at least that's my guess). I think the idea is that people can treat Lyme in the usual ways once some other things are stabilized.

I don't know much about Dr. J's protocols except that he pulses pharmaceuticals. I'm sure one of his patients can speak to whether/how he handles stabilizing sensitive patients before antimicrobial treatment, but I know not all LLMDs do that regularly. Some patients may not need it. I have seen primarily LLMDs who start with antimicrobials and other treatments (like for gut dysbiosis, leaky gut, cytokines, detox pathways, pain management, dietary changes, etc.) all at the same time, but for some folks (like me!) that's too much too soon. I think those folks are the ones that Nathan helps most, especially with things that not all LLMDs know how to address, like mycotoxin illness, mast cell activation syndrome, chemical sensitivities, and limbic system dysfunction. I tend to bring up Nathan's work most when someone is talking about being too sensitive to handle treatment, endless herxes, bad reactions to many different things, etc. because those are the folks for whom Nathan may have some answers.

Maybe someone can recommend their favorite book that focuses on Lyme specifically? I think the ones I hear recommended most are Healing Lyme (Buhner) and Chronic (Phillips), work by Horowitz as well, and the Marty Ross (treatlyme.net) and Bill Rawls (rawlsmd.com) websites.

"My issues aren’t really herxes but endless relapsing if I’m off abx even more than a day"

This makes me think that when you drop the abx you're losing some dampening effects that they're having on your immune system.

Have you ever experimented with herbs?

"I descend into this state pretty fast when off abx. "

Yeah that's what has me wondering if it's more about the changes in immune activity that make you feel worse when you come off (without changes in microbial activity being as much of a factor).

It might be worth it to experiment with some of the immune modulating herbs (baikal skullcap, red sage, eleuthero, cordyceps, or ashwagandha) and focus less on killing/breaking more biofilm. Just a thought...

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 5/19/2021 10:53:30 AM (GMT-6)