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Article: The Truth About "Adrenal Fatigue"

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Posted 5/5/2019 4:15 AM (GMT 0)
As someone who has been dealing with daily fatigue for more than five years now, I know it's real. Plus, I know many of you are struggling with it, too. Or, if you've been fortunate enough to overcome it, you've suffered with it in the past.

However, the medical community says that "Adrenal Fatigue Does Not Exist."

That used to really bother me, because I thought they were saying "It's all in your head. Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo."

But, I don't think that's what they meant. Doctors DO believe the SYMPTOMS exist. However, the debate has been about what's causing the symptoms.

Here's a two-part article titled "The Truth about 'Adrenal Fatigue'" that looks good.

Part 1: https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/low-cortisol-levels
Part 2: https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/real-causes-of-low-cortisol-levels

I've not read and/or listened to ALL of both parts yet, but this is an update to his previous work that I read a couple of years ago. Based on the old work, the new work I've skimmed, and his many other blogs and podcasts I've reviewed, I feel comfortable sharing the above articles. I believe Ari is a good researcher and critical thinker.

I hope this information is helpful to folks.
_

Post Edited (The Dude Abides) : 5/4/2019 10:19:21 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/5/2019 8:06 AM (GMT 0)
Interesting. Thank you for sharing. The writing style is rather maddening, but it seems well-researched and useful.
Posted 5/5/2019 1:15 PM (GMT 0)
I got adrenal problems as a side effect of several medications, including rifampin, clarithromycin, metronidazole and trimethoprim.

It was definitely real, and it showed up on the blood tests. The acute symptom was low sodium and high potassium. It also caused depletion of Vitamin C, B6 and B12. This in turn led to low L-carnitine, and high lipids.

It also caused constipation/diarrhea, which is presumably due to the effect on endorphins, although I didn't get this tested. Naltrexone seemed to help, although I needed a higher dose than usual (I took around 10 mg a day, in multiple doses).
Posted 5/5/2019 3:04 PM (GMT 0)

sandyfeet said...
Selfhacked has a good article debunking the idea of adrenal fatigue as well and his points made sense when I started looking into this.

https://selfhacked.com/blog/adrenal-fatigue/

Thanks for the links above, I’ll check them out as I could use a refresher.

A link from that to one of the causes By Joe Cohen, BS (not a Dr but a deep health research geek), Reviewed By Dr. Nattha Wannissorn, PhD (on more of Joes info now).
Last updated: April 17, 2019

(this is good deep info ive never read before, lyme and all we get here are STRESSORS to the body)

https://selfhacked.com/blog/why-your-health-problems-worsen-after-stress-the-role-of-crh/

"Corticotropin-Releasing Hormone.........If you have one or more of the following, you might have a CRH issue (the more you have the more likely): leaky gut, leaky brain barrier, mast cell/histamine issues, skin problems, sleep issues, SIBO, gut inflammation and general inflammation, IBS-Constipation, gut pain, Diarrhea, problems gaining weight, anxiety/fear, depression, emotional instability, cognitive dysfunction, arthritis, Hashimoto’s, uveitis, IBD, disrupted circadian rhythm, oxidative stress, low Testosterone and high estrogen, low libido and problems with fertility?"

My opinion: Adrenal fatigue is word play. I would not say its "fake" but some will because It has no solid definition, as its different to others. Joe Cohen is saying that Dr Wilsons definition is wrong or fake, but then lists other reasons (goes deeper, see above) for the actual symptoms that do in fact exist.

Post Edited (astroman) : 5/5/2019 9:55:35 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/5/2019 3:21 PM (GMT 0)
Its a word game. They should just rename "adrenal fatigue" it to "improper cortisol level disease", since the same people who debunk it do agree that cortisol levels can be off in people. I have personal proof of this, as others do. My endo even uses almost every method to track cortisol.

Dr Lam made a career out of this, and he seems to do more talking, "selling" the concept than proving with details (its his business). Hes on his way out and his daughter is the replacement. Niether go into details, which is part why others dont like the term AF and say its "fake".

Glutan sensitivity has limited lab proof, but through observing patients changes, even some endos (mine included) know positive changes can occure when limiting glutan in hashimoto patients. But hard core endos still say its fake..........hard core endos are so blind they choose not to see the proof.

There is NO lab test to prove MS either. But no one says its fake. MS is also unfortunately a money generating machine to.

Fibro and Chronic lyme are also "fake" by some. Its all in how they view the definition, or lack of.
Posted 5/5/2019 3:27 PM (GMT 0)

sandyfeet said...
Selfhacked has a good article debunking the idea of adrenal fatigue as well and his points made sense when I started looking into this.

https://selfhacked.com/blog/adrenal-fatigue/

Thanks for the links above, I’ll check them out as I could use a refresher.

astroman said...
A link from that to one of the causes By Joe Cohen, BS (not a Dr but a deep health research geek), Reviewed By Dr. Nattha Wannissorn, PhD (on more of Joes info now).
Last updated: April 17, 2019https://selfhacked.com/blog/why-your-health-problems-worsen-after-stress-the-role-of-crh/

"Corticotropin-Releasing Hormone.........If you have one or more of the following, you might have a CRH issue (the more you have the more likely): leaky gut, leaky brain barrier, mast cell/histamine issues, skin problems, sleep issues, SIBO, gut inflammation and general inflammation, IBS-Constipation, gut pain, Diarrhea, problems gaining weight, anxiety/fear, depression, emotional instability, cognitive dysfunction, arthritis, Hashimoto’s, uveitis, IBD, disrupted circadian rhythm, oxidative stress, low Testosterone and high estrogen, low libido and problems with fertility?"

Were you to ask my childhood teachers, they would tell you I definitely had a leaky brain. According to them, everything they said ran right out of my ears and onto the floor. At least, I think that's what they said.

The problem with the above symptom list is that it overlaps with many other conditions, too. ("Do you have trouble gaining, losing, or maintaining weight? Do you blink? Yawn? If so, you may have CRH Dysfunction! See your doctor today!") Plus, some things are subjective and others can't be accurately tested. For things that can be tested, the question then becomes how to interpret the data and what to do with it.

On the flip side, I do think healthcare is improving, but certainly not as quickly as it could and should be.

In the interim, I'm going to plug my ears with Silly Putty, to address my leaky brain.
Posted 5/5/2019 3:29 PM (GMT 0)
The definition varies so much that some like Dr Lam will list stages. First stage is high cortisol.

My cortisol cycle was reversed per saliva test and insomnia. Now I sleep good and testing shows normal PM cortisol, but higher AM cortisol.

My endo is pushing this testing on me. BUT............he doesn't call it "adrenal fatigue" .

Yes a regular endo , but one of those "best state Dr" Drs for what thats worth (not much really)..

Again Its word play. And the cause is prob a little deeper like what Joe Cohen is saying. That doesn't make it "non existent".
Posted 5/5/2019 3:33 PM (GMT 0)
I was writing while you were posting your latest comment, Astroman. Nice post and all good points. It's definitely a word game. Patients have to say the magic word or phrase, in order to get the proper attention. Or, we have to avoid hot button phrases that will turn-off doctors.
_

Post Edited (The Dude Abides) : 5/5/2019 1:49:21 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/5/2019 3:35 PM (GMT 0)
An important intro / highlight from Dudes links:

"........ this article (and video/podcast presentation), I’ll be showing you why the concept of “adrenal fatigue” is not supported by the evidence. And in part 2, I’ll show you the real causes of low cortisol levels and how to fix your cortisol levels......"

So yes , the symptoms exist, no one agrees on the name of it because "adrenal fatigue" is a symptom of something deeper.

But temporary higher cortisol can exist to, not always being Cushing's disease. . (im testing for this too, its not black and white).
Posted 5/5/2019 3:42 PM (GMT 0)
Dude- "leaky brain" , your onto something here!

Maybe that was me too, and the leak just slowed down lately.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alternative medical term de-bunkers: When Drs or others "attack" an alternative health term, they are attacking the lack of definition. Their definition of "science based" also lacks definition. hypocritical.
Posted 5/5/2019 3:48 PM (GMT 0)

The Dude Abides said...
I was writing while you were posting your latest comment, Astroman. Nice post and all good points. It's definitely a word game. Patients have to say the magic word or phrase, in order to get the proper attention. Or, we have to avoid hotbuttion phrases that will turn-off doctors.

Yes, its nuts. What my Dr conversation was like:

My conventional endo finally says you have lab evidence that "your cortisol is off".

I say and show past lab "evidence" of adrenal fatigue, and show it has changed , but a little too good (which is still bad unless I was running from tigers for enertinty).

He say : "what?...no you have a cortisol level problem".

Me thinking: what the hell is the difference? Its just wording.............so why do debunkers get "bent" on wording?
Posted 5/6/2019 10:39 AM (GMT 0)
We are taught about renal insufficiency in school but not about the causes. IMO, there is a Th1 mediated problem that alters cortisol levels. At first, it's high and then borderline low to low. Does this affect how we function is the key? IMO, cortisol levels can change to help our immune system as needed. In the grand scheme of things, I don't believe it alters how we feel as much as the other changes our body is going through. It is definitely related as I have seen pushing yourself through strenuous exercise can really debilitate a Lyme patient.
Posted 5/6/2019 3:06 PM (GMT 0)
Having years of experience with cortisol levels "off" (high and low), it is something you can feel. That said, when your whole body is going haywire from lyme, its tough to figure out whats doing what.

Its a similar energy to what thyroid produces which I can also feel if its high or low and have made a game of it "guess the lab levels", which after twenty years of thyroid meds, Im getting pretty good at guessing lol.

Cortisol also influence thyroid hormone, blood sugar (liver glucose "dumping"), blood pressure, anxiety, sleep and muscle health. To much cortisol puts your body tissues/muscles in a constant catabolic state (tissue breakdown).. Also, when its too high, you need to physically "burn it off" , take supplements or Rx that do this, otherwise relaxing is near impossible sometimes.
Posted 5/6/2019 9:40 PM (GMT 0)
I’m not one to push products but I among many others in my group have had good luck with this to stabilize adrenals.

Thorne Research - Adrenal Cortex - 60 Capsules Ahout $12.00 a bottle .

There is a similar one this by Thorne that has has not been defatted and still has adrenalin in it. Do not use that version.

It’s the first step in supporting adrenals since the others method are more complex. Seems to work on about 70% of people. Allows me to function pretty normally. I still cannot workout but it’s enough to allow me to work and do yard work on weekends.

I take 8 per day so yes it is about a $50.00 a month investment. But it’s the single most important supplement I take. Not everyone needs this much. I would get 2 bottles and give it a 2 week try. Need to ramp slowly and only take in the AM.

It’s basically food for your adrenals and it will give you 2 positive reactions at first. Either make you tired and want to take a nap or make you a little hyper. Both are good and will pass after a few days. Best to try first few doses on weekends in case you want to sleep.

Maybe ramp to 8 a day over 2-3 weeks. Or stop if you don’t need that many.

I started with 1 pill a day at 6am and added other every other day at 9 am and then noon,

Now I dose at These times , 2 pills each

3am or whenever I get up to hit the bathroom.
6am
9am
Noon.

If you don’t get more energy after you use the 2 bottles ,, worst case your out 24 bucks,

Also there are cheaper higher dose brands but you need to be able to tolerate of these pills at once. I probably could by now but it’s working so well I don’t want to risk it.
Posted 5/6/2019 10:53 PM (GMT 0)

Mark FW said...
I’m not one to push products but I among many others in my group have had good luck with this to stabilize adrenals.

Thorne Research - Adrenal Cortex - 60 Capsules Ahout $12.00 a bottle .

There is a similar one this by Thorne that has has not been defatted and still has adrenalin in it. Do not use that version.

This stuff is ground up adrenal glands from cows. Is there a reason you prefer this to taking synthetic hydrocortisone?
Posted 5/6/2019 11:19 PM (GMT 0)
RainyCloud: My pleasure, friend. It's good to "see" you, as always. smile
Posted 5/7/2019 12:58 AM (GMT 0)

Quin said...

Mark FW said...
I’m not one to push products but I among many others in my group have had good luck with this to stabilize adrenals.

Thorne Research - Adrenal Cortex - 60 Capsules Ahout $12.00 a bottle .

There is a similar one this by Thorne that has has not been defatted and still has adrenalin in it. Do not use that version.

This stuff is ground up adrenal glands from cows. Is there a reason you prefer this to taking synthetic hydrocortisone?


Correct on the source and it’s a good question. ACE is recommended as first step to heal the adrenals versus supplementing cortisol. Idea is to get the adrenals to perform their complex function themselves. Using the non-adrenalin type is considered the more natural non habit forming remedy.

However it may not be enough and HC is then recommended but no more than 20mg per day so you don’t risk shutting down your natural production. Also with HC, even with only 20 mg you still need to ween off.
Posted 5/7/2019 4:16 AM (GMT 0)
This is a new supplement that was formulated by the author of the Adrenal Fatigue article:

https://www.theenergyblueprint.com/energenesis

I didn't mention it originally, but it's a new product and I've not personally used it. But, since supplements are being discussed, maybe someone will want to investigate it.
Posted 5/7/2019 4:28 AM (GMT 0)
Hmm. Well one bottle is $119 so that's kind of a red flag. It boasts 23 ingredients but exactly how much of all of those can you include in one or two capsules? The whole page looks like one of those web-fomercials with the PayPal link at the bottom. I wouldn't buy it.
Posted 5/7/2019 4:31 AM (GMT 0)
I have very high energy levels and there are a few things I have done over the years that helped, specially in the beginning. After a while I didnt notice any increase with cbd oil for example.

Cbd oil. Take this rarely now but used to take every day.
Carnityl. Dont take this anymore.
40 min mediation most days. Now I meditate about 80 min per week.
Working with trauma around my fathers alzheimers and passning
Lllt with vielight 655
Mucuna Supreme for likely low dopamine levels from mold.

Working with your sleep routines is also very important. I really like a new routine with a 10 min walk in the morning most days without my glasses for setting the circadian rytm.
Posted 5/7/2019 5:38 AM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
Hmm. Well one bottle is $119 so that's kind of a red flag. It boasts 23 ingredients but exactly how much of all of those can you include in one or two capsules? The whole page looks like one of those web-fomercials with the PayPal link at the bottom. I wouldn't buy it.

I thought I was the only skeptical naysayer on this forum. smile

The label shows a serving is a scoop, but it is a lot of ingredients. And, while certainly not cheap, I've spent that much and more on some supplements. I don't mind trying things I can return or that have a 100% money-back guarantee. But, being unemployed, I'm not willing to take the risk. Maybe when I have some income again.
Posted 5/7/2019 2:11 PM (GMT 0)
Nope... I am right there with you Dude. I just don't chime in often. Sometimes I wonder if I should more. Especially when I think someone may be getting taken to the cleaners and may benefit from brushing up their critical thinking skills. But I also do not want to embarass or hurt anyone's feelings.
Posted 5/7/2019 2:44 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, Missouri. Good to hear from you. In the future, should you have that same internal feeling, I'm sure folks would appreciate your giving them a sanity check. At least, I know I would. I'm sure you'd do it in a nice way, as I've always know you to be nice. But, you have my permission to be tough with me, if I'm not getting the hint. smile
Posted 5/8/2019 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
Dude - I question a lot of those 100% back guarantees. A lot of them have qualifiers on them and won't accept your reasoning, or they'll just give you the runaround, or at worst just not respond to your request. I think we have to be skeptical with everything with this illness, so many scams out there. Someone just tried to scam me into something yesterday to "detox" my gut.
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