Pain - to treat or not

Hey guys,

I’ve been thinking about this and wondering what you all think. Forgive me if I already asked this before.

I have a lot of pain at times. My pain basically is inflammation felt in tissues, muscle, and joints. Sometimes headaches (for which I take Imitrex).

For decades pre-Lyme dx, I took Tylenol, Aleve, or Goody’s headache powder regularly for headaches, body aches, and bone pain. Now I take nothing for pain but worry about how years of inflammation must be destroying my insides.

I know a lot of people use CBD or marajuana or opioids for pain. I know CBD is not the same as marajuana, but it still is associated with it. I have never done any kind of drugs in my life and never wanted to, so taking anything like that seems far fetched to me. I’m not criticizing those who do, only explaining where I come from. So far, my pain has not been unbearable only bothersome, worrisome, and sometimes outright miserable to the point of near tears.

Aside from the illicit drug connotations, I have other concerns. While those who use CBD (or other pain management substances) profess feeling and functioning much better on it, aren’t they just masking symptoms? I don’t want to alter my perception of how my body feels. I want to heal what is wrong with it.

If you mask symptoms, how will you know when or if you’re making progress with treatment? Don’t you become psychologically if not physically dependent on the substance? I already feel dependent on the maintenance level of herbs I take and would be terrified if I had to suddenly stop everything.


Thoughts? Opinions? Experiences?

That's an interesting question. I had aches and pains intermittently from the beginning, but the few times I took Tylenol, it never seemed to help, so I never really took anything for pain after that. I never really wondered if the inflammation was having long term effects.

Half the time I couldn't really tell if I was in pain or not. A lot of times I might have been in pain and didn't acknowledge it—I don't know. I would usually just get irritable or very, very angry. Sometimes I didn't realize that there was something wrong. I used to walk with kind of a strange gait because it hurt to walk normally, but I sort of ignored it.

However, when I went on the Marshall Protocol, my pain level decreased a lot. I am not a scientist, but I've heard that Benicar has anti-inflammatory effects, and I certainly was taking enough of it. I'm sure decreasing inflammation is a really good thing, and I think it does promote healing, but in my case I did get kind of dependent on the Benicar. Every time I stopped taking it, the pain would come back. I also had a hard time telling if I was getting better or not—but with my habit of ignoring things, it probably wouldn't have mattered what I was taking.

I would say that being dependent on herbs for Lyme isn't a bad thing—the herbs are helping you to get better. The thing is, not to get dependent on things with bad side effects, like I did (the Benicar was throwing off my whole body). I've never tried CBD oil, but I think that decreasing pain can help your body to heal.

For me, getting rid of the Lyme and co-infections has been the key to getting rid of pain. I also found cold laser therapy and chiropractic adjustments helpful for pain I was having specifically in my knees and my back. Whenever I have a bad headache or anything now, I take a big spoonful of ginger (in water), and it usually works pretty well.

Donjr said...
Doctors best curcumin it is the number one rated curcumin works great. Take three a day 500mg

I tried curcumin but it didn’t help me.
Quercetin seemed to tho.

Ginger + turmeric is a great natural pain killer combo. Problem is the pain killing effect only lasts about 2h so you'd have to repeat the procedure. Good luck getting rid of your pain!

sandyfeet said...


I’d like to try CBD oil but I’m mentally/emotionally/culturally blocked there for now.

sandyfeet - could you explain?
You do know that the cbd oil comes from a different plant than the marijuana?

Not sure if that’s what your concerns are.
You don’t get high from the CBD oil.

Putting anything related to cannabis in the same category as opioids is a mistake. That said I would highly suggest anyone who lives in pain to try CBD and CBD/THC mixture if its legal where you live. It helps a lot of people. Living in constant pain brings on so many other health issues that make the pain worse. That said Ive tried CBD it did nothing. I tried CBD/THC mix and it seemed to make me worse after it would wear off. I wonder now if the anti microbial properties didn't piss something off. And this is coming from someone who smoked cannabis daily for years before being sick and understood what it should be doing.

The pain that I do try avoid treating is pain that is telling me Im overdoing something.

I don't know if I've said this before, but have you ever tried pyrantel pamoate for parasites? It's available over-the-counter. Although I have to say, that when I'm treating the parasites, my symptoms do get worse for a while.

Also there's this free documentary series that might be of interest to people with religious reservations to cannabis (or reservations that they think their religion supports) produced by several doctors, many of whom are Christian: https://thesacredplant.com/

Some Lyme specialists insist on treating pain because pain depletes the adrenal system, overloads us neurologically, causes stress, decreases immunity, and disrupts sleep. I intuitively empathize about not wanting to mask symptoms but rather address underlying causes - 100%. I spend so much time trying to feel steady and like my perceptions are accurate and proportional that the last thing I want is a psychoactive substance, even one that should be pleasant. And being so prone to side effects and so wary of big pharma, I don't put those sorts of things into my body, as a general rule. But I do understand the counterargument, especially when pain is severe. The pain itself can prevent healing and progress from occurring. And I sure as heck ask for lidocaine when I have dental work done.

Another option for chronic pain is a mind-body approach like that of John Sarno or the app Curable. Limbic system retraining like DNRS also can interrupt and correct the pathways that perpetuate these symptoms. Many essential oils help with pain, and also arnica oil and arnica homeopathic pellets. PEMF can be useful if you have access. Acupuncture, craniosacral therapy, massage, and other bodywork makes a huge difference for some people.

I'm curious which religious traditions prohibit the use of drugs explicitly, and where they draw the line, and how. Do they allow caffeine, pharmaceuticals, sugar, anesthesia for dental work, pain meds in hospice for palliative care, wine, etc.? Cheese produces a substance very similar to morphine in the body, so people aren't exaggerating when they say they feel addicted to cheese, but I don't know of any religions that ban cheese (except Jainism and others that require veganism). I'm curious why it would be religiously significant to draw an arbitrary line about this stuff, especially when talking about legitimate medical treatment with a proven record of safety and benefit. Is it something like you are supposed to suffer because it's the will of a higher power that you do so? And if that's true, then why permit medical treatment? (I know some belief systems do not permit medical treatment, I'm just curious about where the line gets drawn.) I realize that many religions discourage critical thinking and questioning the rules that sect leaders set for a group of believers, so maybe the justification for the rule isn't the point, and the point it just to obey it, as a show of faith? There are countless books exploring these questions, so I don't expect to get to the bottom of it here, it just makes me so sad that fear-mongering and arguably misplaced judgment prevents people from accessing a safe, natural, powerful medicine.

I know it's tough to manage anything when in pain, and I'm so sorry that you are continuing to deal with it. Wishing you peaceful resolution soon!

I feel the same way about the border!

Sandy - I feel bad now that you felt you needed to explain...
I wondered if maybe you thought that the cbd oil came from the marijuana plant.
Sorry if I put you “on the spot”

I totally get what you’re talking about.



Here I am - taking antibiotics - yet prior to lyme I was taking 0 meds.
Rarely I would reach for the Tylenol or aspirin and it would be expired...

Hubby and I have always taken a lot of supplements. The top of our microwave holds about 1/4 of hubby’s stash. (Seriously)
Mine are on the kitchen counter - I recently pared them down to a dozen - and put the rest in our pantry.
The pantry has prob 20-30 bottles in there.
So you’d think I’d stay away from Pharma treatment for lyme...
I don’t know if I can adequately explain why I chose Pharma - fear probably.
So I take the abx, but I had anxiety taking the Gabapentin when the NP from the J clinic prescribed it.
I tried a lower dose for about two weeks - and no relief from pain - was unwilling to take a higher dose so stopped taking it.
Dr J then prescribed a similar med: Lyrica to try - but I didn’t even get the script filled.
Next appt he asked me about it - and I ‘fessed up’ - he then offered a prescription for a compounded topical nerve pain cream.
Before I filled it - I researched it to see how much was absorbed into the bloodstream and found it wasn’t - not in any significant amount.
I filled the script but I STILL only have tried it a few times... even tho it should be used regularly for best results.

I also get nervous at the border.
The first trip to DC I called Air Canada on 3 separate occasions (blocked my calls tho) prior to leaving to ask what the best way to bring my pharmaceuticals - all 3 agents told me not to put in the luggage but carry on.
After the 3rd call I was somewhat less nervous and felt that was the right way.

I’m rambling now .... so I’ll stop

Girlie, I definitely understand wanting to trust your source.

And everyone, I know I contributed a lot of links an opinions to this thread, but I hope that didn't imply any judgment. Truly, I feel that we all have to do what is comfortable for us, and only we can define what that means.

Fade2Blonde said...
I take Kratom; herbal opioid. Surprisingly I carry a mutation that indicates I need more opioids than most people in pain. I am very careful with how much I use (it is still addictive), so the tolerance level doesn’t get out of control. Therapeutic levels are between 7-8 grams a day. I don’t take that much (2.5g-6g) a day, if at all. The problem with this is that I’m in a constant cycle of chronic pain. The therapeutic dosage really should be broken up and taken daily, until I/you no longer suffer from chronic pain.

I’ve tried CBD oils, hasish, Marijuana bud, curcumin with black pepper, Tylenol, Advil, prayer, etc., and none of those did a darn thing. Kratom has been a life saver.

You might try Tianeptine (also called Coaxil, Stablon or Tatinol in other countries..) not terribly easy to find but it does wonders for pain whenever I've had it...very tiny dose @ 15mg per day is easy peasy. It is a rare opioid-based antidepressant, brightens mood and alleviates pain fairly effectively IMO. I myself am looking into medical cannabis, in other states where it's not such a boondoggle as where I live. I actually take regular old Acetaminophen (Tylenol generic) a few times a month for both pain and anxiety.

Have you looked into the absorption of your curcumin? A hydro-soluble form may absorb even better.