HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Flare or herx

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 6/26/2019 9:02 PM (GMT 0)
Lately my rashes are being more frequent and more dispersed trought the body. Stopped abx two days ago and got 3 rashes today. I took my usual valproate, wish is as abx effect also. My question is how do i know if it is killing or simply dispersing of bacteria? If the rashes dissapear within a couple of days does that mean killing or flaring? Mine dissapear after couple of days. Like healing wounds, the skin opens, rash appears, rash heals...
My head is nodding/jerking everyday

Thanks

Post Edited (isitlyme) : 6/26/2019 3:37:50 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/26/2019 10:45 PM (GMT 0)
This was my experience with valproate. It made the bartonella flare, including rashes.

However, when the bart flared, I found that I could kill it with minocycline. This actually worked really well. Almost all of my rash is gone now.

My doctor was actually quite surprised how much the rash was gone, because he usually doesn't like to prescribe valproate, and prefers rifabutin for treating bart. But valproate + minocycline worked extremely well for me (aside from the bad herx initially).
Posted 6/26/2019 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
As for distinguishing a bart flare from a herx, I found that the flare tended to cause a lot of air hunger and nose bleeds, while the herx tended to cause fever and a very bad smell. The herx caused a very itchy rash, whereas the flare caused stretch marks.
Posted 6/28/2019 10:16 PM (GMT 0)
But if the stretches go away what does it mean?
Posted 6/28/2019 10:32 PM (GMT 0)
I think its flare in your case, in mine its killing, because with or without the abx the behaviour is the same, except when i add valoproate, the marks on the skin appear more faster.
Posted 6/28/2019 10:48 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah, the stretch marks got more red with valproate. I had success killing bart with minocycline and bactrim (sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim). The rash and peeling skin went away and now doesn't flare as much with the valproate.
Posted 6/28/2019 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
I took tetracycline yesterday and today and i already feel heartburn have to stop it and wait for the heartburn to ease
Posted 6/29/2019 12:07 AM (GMT 0)
Yeah, bart herx gave me a stomach ache.
Posted 6/29/2019 4:21 PM (GMT 0)
Its more of s side effect for me. Not happening with cefixime
Posted 6/29/2019 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Does cefixime kill bart? I have not taken cefixime, but I've found bartonella to be resistant to many antibiotics, including beta-lactams.

The only antibiotics that really worked well were minocycline, bactrim, and metronidazole, and I had trouble tolerating the side effects of metronidazole.

When bart dies, the toxins end up in the bile, and give me a stomach ache. It also smells really bad.
Posted 6/29/2019 7:20 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Its more of s side effect for me. Not happening with cefixime

Isitlyme - I don’t remember - have you tried the usual antibiotics for Bartonella?

Ie - Rifampin combined with at least one other antibiotic

Or: for something stronger : Rifabutin with at least one other antibiotic.

Some other abx to pair with Rif :

Minocycline, Ceftin, Climdamycin...

And a cyst buster a couple days per month

Oh - and some people get results with Bactrim
Posted 6/29/2019 8:54 PM (GMT 0)
Rif is too hard on the liver my llmd doesnt recommend it for nothing. Cyst buster using cistus tea. Bactrim was somewhat kind of banned here where i live and only syrup is avsilable in hospitals.

Why not Doxycline, is it more hard on gi than minocycline?
Posted 6/29/2019 9:12 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Rif is too hard on the liver my llmd doesnt recommend it for nothing. Cyst buster using cistus tea. Bactrim was somewhat kind of banned here where i live and only syrup is avsilable in hospitals.

Why not Doxycline, is it more hard on gi than minocycline?

Curious- Did you ever try Rifampin?
I ask because my liver enzymes went up when I was on Ceftin and Biaxin but not when taking Rifampin or Rifabutin.

Yes doxy tends to be harder on the gi and mino seems to give more “head “ symptoms.

For chronic bart - the abx Ceftin, doxy, minocycline, biaxin, Azithromycin, Tetracycline are usually not enough - even two of those paired together.
especially in longstanding chronic cases.
Posted 6/29/2019 9:14 PM (GMT 0)
Argh. What type of doxy hyclate ot monohidrate?
Posted 6/29/2019 9:22 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Argh. What type of doxy hyclate ot monohidrate?

I don’t remember which one I took - one might be easier on her gi.

Doesn’t mean you will have any problems.
I sandwiched it between food.
So I wouid eat a few bites of my meal - take the doxy - finish my meal. And take it with a full glass of water.
Don’t take with Calcium supplements or dairy (and I think magnesium is also a no-no) - can reduce effectiveness
Posted 6/29/2019 9:26 PM (GMT 0)
Did had any stomach problems with it? Did you stop taking it?
Posted 6/29/2019 9:33 PM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Did had any stomach problems with it? Did you stop taking it?

I didn’t have issues once I started taking it with food.

I was on it prior to my LLND.

My regular Dr prescribed it when she saw my Igenex positive test result. I think she gave me about 5 weeks worth.

My LLND took me off it when I had my consult .
Posted 6/29/2019 11:34 PM (GMT 0)
Bartonella is really difficult due to its tendency to be antibiotic resistant. Regarding specific antibiotics...

clarithromycin (biaxin) - I got a strain of bart that was completely resistant to this. Maybe you get lucky and it works for you, but there's a chance this doesn't work. And, as Girlie mentioned, it can mess with your liver enzymes. My ALT/AST/ALP were fine, but it stressed my adrenals a bit due to the cytochrome P450 enzymes.

valproate (depakote, epilim) - I found bartonella to be somewhat resistant to this. It seemed to make bart flare, probably causing it to migrate into red blood cells and increase its metabolism to run efflux pumps. This can be a useful effect to drive bartonella out of cysts, if paired with an antibiotic that is capable of killing the bart, but valproate alone will not kill it.

sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim (bactrim, septra, trisul) - This seemed quite effective and made me herx a lot. However I got the sodium loss effect from the trimethoprim, which made me pee a lot and gave me headaches. This stuff is cheap, and can be easily ordered online.

minocycline - This did kill bart, but not as efficiently as bactrim. I took valproate + minocycline for several months and had some noticeable improvement. It did not kill bart as quickly as bactrim, but maybe that is desireable if it lessens the herx. Doxycycline would presumably work as well, but some prefer mino as it theoretically crosses the blood-brain barrier better than doxy.

metronidazole (flagyl) - Don't take this if you're susceptible to adrenal insufficiency. Made me completely sick.
Posted 6/30/2019 12:16 AM (GMT 0)

isitlyme said...
Did had any stomach problems with it? Did you stop taking it?

Nope, I took it until it was gone...and when I saw my LLND (first appt) he put me on amoxy.
Posted 7/1/2019 4:46 PM (GMT 0)
I tried taking a small dose of bactrim yesterday, a single 400/80mg dose of sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim. It had a similar effect on bartonella as valproate, the bacteria did not immediately die, but instead invaded the red blood cells. When I followed this with 100mg minocycline, I got a herx with very dark smelly urine.

So it seems that a good strategy for treating bartonella is to first take bactrim or valproate to drive it out of cysts, and then kill it with minocycline or doxycycline.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply