Palpitations and weird digestive stuff

Hi All,

I'm trying to figure this symptom out. I've been treating six years and currently finishing 3 months of IV Rocephin. I've been on abx, herbs, etc. In the last year I started getting this strange symptom mostly at night where I felt like I was having an electrical surge (but also kind of like a roller coaster feeling) run through my upper stomach/chest area just as I was going to sleep that would wake me up with a start. That's not happening so much but now I'm dealing with lots of palpitations and a weird kind of heat-like feeling in my upper stomach that is an uncomfortable feeling not sure how else to describe it. This has gone on before my Rocephin treatement and during it and it comes and goes but is mostly comes. I got checked out by a cardiologist a few months ago, had a 24 hr holter monitor and an echo cardiogram that all came out fine. When I wore the holter I had these sensations.

So my question is, is this my ANS completely out of whack after years of dealing with lyme & bart? Should I think of doing DNRS? Does anyone else have this? I've searched and I can't really find anything that matches my symptoms completely.

BTW, I ordered Dr. Rawls plan for after I'm done with the IV treatment as my llmd wants me to do an herbal protocol (I've done Buhner, Cowden, Beyond Balance, etc. in the past).

Any thoughts would be great but please nothing scary as I have so much anxiety over these symptoms.

Thanks.

Thanks JB. I don’t know enough about all this and what bothers me the most is that the palpitations are a relatively new symptom- came about a year ago after 5 years of treating.

If anyone else has some insight I’d really appreciate it. Does anyone think it’s my autonomic nervous system or a damaged vagus nerve.
(Should mention that one of my symptoms I’ve had for a long time is swallowing weakness- it comes and goes but it’s been one of my longest ones to beat so that’s why I’m also thinking vagus nerve problems)

Thanks

Kitkate,

I have had similar symptoms comparable to all you mentioned. I think ANS dysfunction is very likely involved with the palpitations and the swallowing symptoms.

When my symptoms first started, I had racing heart, heart rate would speed up if I even moved in bed, and felt like it was skipping or beating out of sync. EKG and echocardiogram were normal except for mild mitral valve regurge that was already known about.

As the years passed, I had random episodes where my heart would start skipping again and it would make me feel fatigued like I needed to lay down. The episodes would last days, weeks, and then months and then disappear again. Cardiologist never said I had irregular heartbeat or murmur or anything, but I could feel it when it would happen and when I put my fingers on my neck to feel the pulse.

I also had trouble swallowing as one of my very first symptoms. Super scary. It was like the muscle that controls the swallowing would have a split second delay and wouldn’t work at the right time. That symptom also reoccured randomly over the years to a much less frequent basis, thankfully. Knowing what I know now, I definitely suspect both of those were ANS dysfunction.

Also one of my very first symptoms was the feeling of heat trapped in my chest and upper back. It felt like a sunburn from the inside out - like heat deep in my tissues was trying to escape through my skin. Very uncomfortable and anxiety provoking. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s autonomic in nature, too.

All the above was in the very beginning and occurred during the same time period.

Now and for probably at least a year, I get weird nerve sensations when I first wake up. Not always but frequently. It feels like an irritation that migrates throughout my body’s nerves as I am waking up. I used to get bad nerve reactions, too, whenever startled, and I was easily startled. That hasn’t happened much recently. That’s probably CNS related.

Can’t say for sure which infection was involved in each or even what helps the symptoms. Just that I can relate.

Girlie said...
WalkingbyFaith - you mentioned weird nerve sensations when waking up - is it like internal shivering?

I have something like that - it happens as I’m waking up - before I’m fully conscious... it’s very unpleasant - not happening as often now - it’s a horrible way to start the day!

I wouldn’t describe mine as shivers. I think of shivers as kind of like tremors. There’s no movement. It just feels like my nerves get turned on and kind of electrified. I can feel it migrate through my body like a current. It is uncomfortable. I agree - not a pleasant way to wake up. Do you connect yours with any particular infection or has it been around throughout?

P.S. - I had the morning nerve thing really bad this morning. I went to bed too late last night. If I stay up late, mornings tend to be much worse. This morning it happened repeatedly after I had gotten up early to use the bathroom and had tried to go back to sleep. I couldn’t really go back to sleep much because this kept happening repeatedly for the next couple of hours.

+1 for being tested for Babesia.

Also get tested again for Bartonella and the full range of other Lyme coinfections like mycoplasma, as well as parasites and protozoa (I also had a Giardia infection). Rocephin was fantastic for treating my lyme and joint pain, but didnt seem to touch my coinfections which seemed resistant. My coinfections were eventually cured with targeted drugs and combined therapy techniques (cant remember the specific drugs used, but anti parasitic and anti-protozoal drugs pulsed into and out of my coinfection ABX routine played a huge role).

WalkingbyFaith said...

Girlie said...
WalkingbyFaith - you mentioned weird nerve sensations when waking up - is it like internal shivering?

I have something like that - it happens as I’m waking up - before I’m fully conscious... it’s very unpleasant - not happening as often now - it’s a horrible way to start the day!

I wouldn’t describe mine as shivers. I think of shivers as kind of like tremors. There’s no movement. It just feels like my nerves get turned on and kind of electrified. I can feel it migrate through my body like a current. It is uncomfortable. I agree - not a pleasant way to wake up. Do you connect yours with any particular infection or has it been around throughout?

mine aren't tremors - not visible. But it still feels like shivers...without the goose bumps.... IDK how to describe it.
mine also migrate...like a wave. Mine are worse in the winter... even though they are different than shivering from cold. Too hard to explain...lol.

I think mine are probably bartonella...as I think that's the one that I'm having trouble with...completely irradicating.
I had tested positive for it via pcr in 2016. And, i have had many cats/bites...scratches. In fact my cat died suddenly in spring of 2016 - with an undiagnosed heart disease event. He had a blood clot travel from his heart down his back to the junction at the hind legs. It got stuck there...cutting off all the blood supply to his back legs.
He was literally screaming in pain (never heard a cat make that sound before) - and dragging his legs behind him.
I held on to him as I called the emergency vet...and he was out of his mind...and chomped down on my arm.
The bite got infected.

i think he may have had bartonella.

My positive bart test was after 2 years treating bart with Rifampin and minocycline plus some herbals.

Kitkate said...
Thanks so much Charlie- really very helpful! I agree that a lot of my issues right now are herx/toxin build up. And thanks for the herbal suggestions. I’m glad to hear you recommend those for co- infections as that’s what I think my body needs after all the abx.

Hyperthyroid or just an imbalanced thyroid in general can cause a lot of these symptoms as well, especially heart palpitations and anxiety, so be sure to get your thyroid levels checked out, a well as the antibodies on your thyroid.

Gotta be careful what herbs you take as well, if you have something like Hashimotos or Graves. Sida Acuta would be something I'd avoid if you're having thyroid issues, maybe cats claw too, as some have said it's somewhat similar to quinolones.

It's very hard to say if some of these symptoms are directly related to borrelia/coinfections herx, thyroid, overused of antibiotics, even herbs sometimes. You definitely have to factor in all of it at times, either way detox can help with all of these I think, even epsom salt bath for hyperthyroid.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 8/4/2019 7:14:13 AM (GMT-6)

potsnpans said...

Charlie, can you explain how sida acuta might affect the thyroid?

It's definitely been discussed before, but sida acuta has slight instances of ephedra, on Woodland Essence there's even a warning.

https://woodlandessence.com/products/sida-acuta-extract?variant=32557361742

"Sida acuta is used in traditional medicine to prevent pregnancy. It should also be used with caution in Hypertension, Hyperthyroid and Hypoglycemia."

While I know some members on HealingWell.come say the the ephedra is very small, I think even Buhner states this, if you keep taking a supplement that has even the slightest amount of ephedra, I assume it can still build up in the system over long periods of time considering many take these herbs for months if not years.

Anxiety and heart racing is not fun to deal with. While I'm sure there's many that think all the symptoms are from herxing and toxins, you have to take into account if you have hashimotos or graves disease, and herbs like sida cuta, cats claw, even A-Bab could cause some side effects to the thyroid. It seems like a lot of patients with chronic lyme have problems with their thyroid, so you have to take into consider that.

There was even a person that related A-Bab to being on speed. Herx or adrenal/hyperthyroid? Always hard to tell. I think when you get to this point, it's either good to take a break or at least lower the dosage.
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3795523

BJD55 said...
I've been rx'd artemesinin, a-bab, and doxy. I initially increased the a-bab dose too quickly, increasing 1 drop per day bid to I got to 5 drops bid. I started feeling wired, agitated, and increased gastritis pain. So I took 5 days off and started back on it yesterday. I took 2 drops mid afternoon and within an hour that wired feeling came back. Reminds me a bit of when I took speed in college back in the 70's. It was tolerable til I went to bed and I struggled to fall/stay asleep.

Kitkate said...

BTW, I ordered Dr. Rawls plan for after I'm done with the IV treatment as my llmd wants me to do an herbal protocol (I've done Buhner, Cowden, Beyond Balance, etc. in the past).

Thanks.

Gotta take caution with all of it Kitkate, especially if you're just coming off 3 months of IV antibiotics, if it were me I'd give your body some time to rest for a few months before getting on herbs or more antibiotics, doing major detox with epsom salt baths. Even plenty of probiotics which has also shown to reduce anxiety. I think toxins can build up in the head with many of these herbs and antibiotics, especially IV antibiotics because they cross the blood brain barrier, and it may take some time for the toxins to get out of your body, especially your head.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 8/4/2019 8:28:38 AM (GMT-6)

Girlie said...
Charlie - thanks for the info/cautions re: Sida Acuta.

I did not know about that...

Search box is magnificent on here Girlie, I'm always reading. Along with on LymeNet.org.

I think sida acuta and a-bab are wonderful herbs, but if you already have heart palpitations or anxiety, these would probably be two herbs to avoid, at least until your symptoms subside Kitkate. Then if you want, start with low dosage. Don't think it would be good to jump from IV antibiotics straight into herbs like sida acuta or A-bab, depending what, Dr. Rawls recommends.

I've even read some who have floxed on Cipro, say they get the same symptoms when they go on cats claw, in to maybe a relation of cats claw having some similar chemical structure to quinolines. Maybe there isn't anything to it, but there's other herbs out there to try like oregano, teasel root, etc you can try...

I've experience some of what patients described on HealingWell.com doing sida acuta and a-bab, so I'd be careful if you already have anxiety and heart symptoms.

Girlie said...


I’m not sure how you’d know if it was flexing or a herx - ie peripheral neuropathy, tendon pain.. two warnings of the fluoroquinolones - but also two common lyme symptoms.

I just choose not to take that class of meds - even tho they are supposedly the best for Bart.

I agree, I think at times it's hard to tell whether it's from toxicity of a herb/antibiotics versus the toxins from herxing. But you can't ignore the similarities of cats claw to the quinolene antibiotic properties, how they both can possibly build up in the brain and cause neurotoxicity and maybe heart palpitations. Just like how Sida Acuta can, I assume there wouldn't be a warning on Woodland Essence if there wasn't side effects from a herb like Sida Acuta. I know some on here will argue that these herbs are perfectly safe and harmless, after reading dozens of member's posts using the search box, they speak otherwise. I think with any supplement, herb or drug you have to take precaution as you take them and they build up in your system. From my experience I never got any tendon pain from cats claw, as for other symptoms like neurotoxicity, I developed some strange symptoms.

It's been discussed before, some people have reactions to cats claw, sida acuta, and A-Bab, while others no problem. Since Kitkate already has heart issues and anxiety, figured I'd just give him a heads up on using some of these herbs.
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3865406

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 8/6/2019 3:25:29 AM (GMT-6)

the wine could have messed with your gaba receptors. i used to get jolts when withdrawing from benzos which work on the same receptors. you might have been in 'withdrawal' from the wine so to speak.

Thanks Charlie, really very helpful . I agree with you that I think this might be a bartonella herx. Will stay away from the Sida for awhile as I don't want an increase in that symptom. And a clean diet is probably a really go strategy for me right now. Really appreciate your help!