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Best non-abx treatment for Bartonella?

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Posted 9/4/2019 3:22 AM (GMT 0)
Hey all I was wondering if any of you have advice for the best treatment for Bartonella treatment without abx? I did abx last year and months after I got off then I just got so much worse even though during the abx I felt decent.
The pain in my shins and legs is terrible, the spider veins are ugly, and I’m just depressed and miserable. Worried I’m becoming anemic (the nail changes and extreme fatigue) as well besides all my hormone and thyroid issues.

Thanks for all!!
Posted 9/4/2019 3:49 PM (GMT 0)
I am considering trying the Houttuynia as I’ve heard lots of you say decent results with Bartonella and I’ll get it from woodland essence since they’re cheaper.
Posted 9/4/2019 4:13 PM (GMT 0)
I’d look into doing Buhner’s full protocol for bartonella.
Posted 9/4/2019 7:59 PM (GMT 0)

Savedbygrace12 said...
I am considering trying the Houttuynia as I’ve heard lots of you say decent results with Bartonella and I’ll get it from woodland essence since they’re cheaper.

Houttuynia is a good bart herb - but might be a good idea to add in Sida Acuta and Japanese knotweed ( in buhners bart protocol)
I also take Hawthorne for heart/cardiovascular protection.

Woodland Essence is cheaper ? Than what ?
Lol - I do buy from them as they are good quality and Buhner has them on his recommended sources list.
Plus I like the fact that they are a small(ish) company and want to support them.
Their Hawthorne tincture actually tastes good.
Posted 9/4/2019 8:29 PM (GMT 0)
Cheaper than like nutramedix, Amazon, and natural food stores.

I am already doing the knotweed and just recently started motherwort, NAC (again -have done it previously) and just recently started Hawthorne as well. I also am taking a lot of methyl b vitamins for my mthfr genes and multivitamin and vitamin C just to stay healthy at work. Also I’m taking hormones for my terrible cycle issues and spotting. I’m only 29 but have little progesterone and undetectable DHEA and Testosterone in urine and so we’re trying to get it all figured out.

I’m considering adding the sida acuta too. I’m just really tired of the pain in my shins and legs that I got to do something and the other herbals aren’t helping a whole lot with the pain. My fatigue has been really bad too.

Just so much going on and thanks for the advice
Posted 9/5/2019 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
Savedbygrace my hormones are like yours... can I ask you..are u losing a ton of hair?? Because I am so I wanted to see if the low hormones is what’s causing it
Posted 9/5/2019 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
I have lost quite a bit of hair. My thyroid and sex hormones are bad. I got a crap ton of estrogen too. It’s frustrating. At least it’s not the bad estrogen
Posted 9/5/2019 12:57 AM (GMT 0)

Savedbygrace12 said...
I am considering trying the Houttuynia as I’ve heard lots of you say decent results with Bartonella and I’ll get it from woodland essence since they’re cheaper.

The powder is considerably less if your looking to save money.
Posted 9/5/2019 1:03 AM (GMT 0)
I like extracts a lot and I’m good starting with it. If it helps and starts getting expensive I’ll consider switching to the powder 😊
Posted 9/5/2019 1:22 AM (GMT 0)

jolaleye121 said...
For the veins, make sure to try out Serrapeptase it's very inexpensive. For some it causes a herx, I got lucky and felt immediately better on taking it. Don't know where I'd be without it. It's great for inflammation, scar tissue, cysts and veins as well, do some searches and you'll get some feedback. Buhners book outlines these protocols very well but my main focus has been on lyme and not coinfections.

Hi does the Serrapeptase help with biofilm as well? I thought I heard that once.
Posted 9/5/2019 1:48 AM (GMT 0)
Woodland Essence is by no means cheap but it is so potent that it will last you a while. It is kicking my butt.

Girlie - do you think sida acuta and knotweed are necessary for bart or would houttuynia be enough? Like I said, and I made another post, I can barely handle that one.
Posted 9/5/2019 2:48 AM (GMT 0)

physedgirl09 said...
Savedbygrace my hormones are like yours... can I ask you..are u losing a ton of hair?? Because I am so I wanted to see if the low hormones is what’s causing it

So did testing show low hormones? Which ones?

And didn’t the NP at the J clinic address it?
Posted 9/5/2019 4:24 AM (GMT 0)
My testosterone and DHEA were non detectable in my 24 hour urine and my progesterone was low. My estrogen however was very high.

I am now on 200mg bioidentical progesterone and low dose combined DHEA and testosterone vaginal suppositories daily. We are trying to stop my precycle spotting I’ve had for years and the DHEA/testosterone is for my dry spells I’m also having. This is how my NP is addressing my hormones and I also take compounded slow release 50mcg liothyronine for my thyroid daily.
Posted 9/5/2019 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
That’s awesome to hear. Yeah the full protocol is a lot and even Buhner questioned the full protocol and so that’s why I’ve questioned doing it all and the fact obviously that it’s a lot. That’s why I take bits and pieces and muscle test what’s good for me. Also the greater celandine is hard on the liver and so I question that.

Thanks for your help though
Posted 9/5/2019 4:48 PM (GMT 0)
the buhner bart protocol is worth trying as it covers all bases. also treat lyme at the same time the most effective herbal combo for lyme is cats claw and otoba bark given my experiences.

i think many people have bart they just don't have something like lyme which turns it into popeye on spinach. its easy to add those 2 herbs to the bart protocol so you can tackle both simultaneously.

another very strong bart med is zhang's HH-2 combined with his Allicin product. this double combo is very effective.
Posted 9/5/2019 5:01 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for your advice. I’ll try and do more of the Bart protocol. Cats claw has definitely affected me before. I took it for my PCR test last year and it got me the Bart diagnosis. I know now though I’m working more to kill Bart than anything. I can actually say I’ve gotten the Lyme more under control. My PCR year last year only showed Bartonella Henselae and ever since I got off Doxy and Clarithromycin about 2-3 months later I relapsed and got way worse. It’s been a struggle ever since
Posted 9/5/2019 5:16 PM (GMT 0)
bart almost always comes back once you stop whatever medicines you're taking. how long until the symptoms return is unique to the individual but it's usually months for some it could be years but that's rare.

since bart is intracellular you have to treat for a full red blood cell lifecycle. that means at least 90 days for any treatment if its effective.

while most people believe the best way to gauge effectiveness of a protocol is how you feel, that isn't necessarily true as you can be asymptomatic and still be massively infected it all depends on your individual make up.

to me i would have my blood examined under a microscope to gauge the population of pathogens at some interval. for example if you're doing the buhner bart protocol have your blood evaluated as a baseline before you start, then get it checked every 2-3 months. if the protocol is effective the numbers should go down. keep doing the protocol until they stop going down or nothing shows up.

i know its long and tricky but to me lab tests and such are so notoriously unreliable due to a variety of factors that only by direct examination of pathogens in your blood can you with near certainty say what you have and how much of it.
Posted 9/5/2019 6:08 PM (GMT 0)
PCR was urine quantitative and so I have more trust in that test. The issue is it costs 500$ out of pocket so it’s not easy to do a lot.

Also I will keep the 90 days in mind. Consistency is very hard for me as I get very frustrated quickly if I’m not doing better.

Thanks for your posts. It’s very helpful
Posted 9/5/2019 6:38 PM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
Woodland Essence is by no means cheap but it is so potent that it will last you a while. It is kicking my butt.

Girlie - do you think sida acuta and knotweed are necessary for bart or would houttuynia be enough? Like I said, and I made another post, I can barely handle that one.

I found Woodland Essence more costly than the Hawthorne sold at my local health food store.
But the quality - night and day.

If you're going all herbal...I wouldn't just do one. Knotweed is excellent for lyme too. I would add sida as well.

If you're sensitive - then wait until you're handling the low dose of houttuynia.....then add just a couple drops of JK.
After awhile on Hout and JK, add a couple drops of the Sida.
Then you've got all three in at low dose. Then you can increase each one slowly...one at a time.
Posted 9/5/2019 6:47 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie post:
“If you're sensitive - then wait until you're handling the low dose of houttuynia.....then add just a couple drops of JK.
After awhile on Hout and JK, add a couple drops of the Sida.
Then you've got all three in at low dose. Then you can increase each one slowly...one at a time.”

Girlie your method sounds right up my alley. I’m going to definitely do it!! The perfect post I’ve been looking for.

I did just take one Serrapeptase today too. Going to see if it helps my pain.

Truly thanks for everything

Post Edited (Savedbygrace12) : 9/5/2019 1:34:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/5/2019 6:48 PM (GMT 0)
Once you have tried various single Bart tinctures from WE look at the their IHA blend (isatis, Hout and Alchornia) and JK Plus (JK, Cats' Claw, liquorice Root, Cordyceps, etc) for more bang for your buck.
Posted 9/5/2019 6:50 PM (GMT 0)
Also - if 1 drop is too much - ie herxing....then put 1 drop in a glass of water. Drink half of it...and the other half the next day.....lol...now that's sensitive!


One of our previous forum Moderators was consulting with one of Buhner's recommended herbalists. And, she had posted that several herbs at low dose...is better than one herb at a high dose as they work synergistically.

...and eventually, you can continue to raise each one...
Posted 9/5/2019 7:00 PM (GMT 0)
>>PCR was urine quantitative and so I have more trust in that test.

faulty assumption for a variety of reasons. PCR isn't as foolproof as it sounds.
Posted 9/5/2019 8:37 PM (GMT 0)

Savedbygrace12 said...
PCR was urine quantitative and so I have more trust in that test. The issue is it costs 500$ out of pocket so it’s not easy to do a lot.

Also I will keep the 90 days in mind. Consistency is very hard for me as I get very frustrated quickly if I’m not doing better.

Thanks for your posts. It’s very helpful

Positive pcr gives you info but a negative result doesn’t - as it may not be detected in that relatively small sample even though you have it.
Posted 9/6/2019 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
Alright I'll do that. I cannot believe I'm herxing on five drops total a day. Guess I'll put those two on my list too then. Should I get them from Woodland Essence? Is the herxing as bad on JK and SA as it is on hout?
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