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List of Antibiotics and Herbs For Bartonella

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Posted 9/30/2019 9:03 PM (GMT 0)
Trying to compile a list of available antibiotics and herbs that are effective for Bartonella. Also if they cross the Blood-Brain barrier or not

Antibiotics:
Rifampin/Rifabutin (BBB)
Bactrim DS (BBB)
Minocycline/Doxycycline (BBB)

Azithromyacin/Clarithromyacin
Levaquin/Cipro (unsure of BBB but does have black box warning for tendon damage)


Herbs:
Houttuynia + Sida Acuta
Japanese Knotweed
A-bart

Help me fill this in! After going to the ER today due to a syncopal episode caused by Rifampin, I’m trying to figure out what all the available options are. Bactrim and Rifampin are now out for me.
Posted 10/1/2019 1:12 AM (GMT 0)

Solaris719 said...
Trying to compile a list of available antibiotics and herbs that are effective for Bartonella. Also if they cross the Blood-Brain barrier or not

Antibiotics:
Rifampin/Rifabutin (BBB)
Bactrim DS (BBB)
Minocycline/Doxycycline (BBB)

Azithromyacin/Clarithromyacin
Levaquin/Cipro (unsure of BBB but does have black box warning for tendon damage)


Herbs:
Houttuynia + Sida Acuta
Japanese Knotweed
A-bart

Help me fill this in! After going to the ER today due to a syncopal episode caused by Rifampin, I’m trying to figure out what all the available options are. Bactrim and Rifampin are now out for me.

Just wanted to mention that the fluoroquinolones come with 3 (or is it 4?) fda black box warnings.
Posted 10/1/2019 1:13 AM (GMT 0)
You mentioned Rifampin, Have you tried Rifabutin?
Posted 10/1/2019 1:39 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
You mentioned Rifampin, Have you tried Rifabutin?

I haven’t - but haven’t you stated that it is more potent than rifampin? Or is there another key difference?
Posted 10/1/2019 1:48 AM (GMT 0)
For me the Rifabutin seems stronger - It’s the first med that gave me what I call “classic “ herxing

Ie fever, rapid heart rate, body pain.
Hits me hard

But we’re all different - maybe it wouldn’t be the same for you.

Although I do know another person who herxed badly on the Rifabutin.

I wouldn’t say minocycline/doxy or Azithromycin/Biaxin are usually very effective - unless they’re paired with Rifampin/Rifabutin
Posted 10/1/2019 3:51 AM (GMT 0)
pyrazinamide
https://youtu.be/bzu0weofvm8?t=5987

Some LLMDs also say omnicef works on bartonella

Few reports of possibly kelp/iodine.
Posted 10/1/2019 11:22 AM (GMT 0)

Charlie55 said...
pyrazinamide
https://youtu.be/bzu0weofvm8?t=5987

Some LLMDs also say omnicef works on bartonella

Few reports of possibly kelp/iodine.

Not familiar with either of those drugs. Do they have to be paired with anything? Does Omnicef cross the BBB?
Posted 10/2/2019 12:34 AM (GMT 0)
I was on Omnicef and Rifampin...weak combo, in my opinion, at least for me.

Omnicef and Bactrim were a great combo the first time when I initially treated for Lyme.

I too, have experienced syncope episodes. Not on ABX. But almost did a few weeks back on Biaxin and Bactrim. Strong and possibly dangerous combo for me.
Posted 10/2/2019 1:15 AM (GMT 0)
I'm going on Biaxin and Bactrim...uh oh...
Posted 10/2/2019 2:25 AM (GMT 0)
Hey guys do Banderol and Samento do anything for Bart? I’m on them now and feel like I’ve been herxing. Not sure which bacteria is flaring though.
Posted 10/2/2019 2:57 AM (GMT 0)
Not sure about those for bart.

But if you’re doing the Cowden protocol - they use Houttuynia for bart.
Posted 10/2/2019 3:08 AM (GMT 0)
Methylene blue, doctor H is using it based on Zhangs study.
Posted 10/2/2019 12:25 PM (GMT 0)

jb1994 said...
I'm going on Biaxin and Bactrim...uh oh...

I had been on Rif, Bactrim, and Alinia combo for a long period last year and did pretty well. Also took Jk Plus and IHA blend from Woodland.

In the spring I switched Rif to Biaxin which I hadn't taken in any combination in many years. I hate the metallic after-taste that Biaxin produces. But it's been pretty effective at maintaining my 90% status... just can't get through the last 10%.

Had to stop Biaxin in August due a conflict my pharmacist said with 2 of the 4 new meds prescribed after my heart attack. Last week my Cardio switched one of the meds and cleared conflict with the other so I could continue with Biaxin. This cardio was one of the first specialist I've seen that did not give me any crap about Lyme and my complex treatment protocols.
Posted 10/2/2019 6:55 PM (GMT 0)
Does Tindamax hit Bart?
Posted 10/2/2019 6:58 PM (GMT 0)

Solaris719 said...
Does Tindamax hit Bart?

- It’s not one of the recommended abx for bart - may be useful somewhat paired with another med. mainly used for busting lyme cysts
Posted 10/3/2019 12:38 PM (GMT 0)
My llmd told me rifampin is stronger than rifabutin. He said they give rifabutin to patients that can't handle rifampin. I asked to switch and that is what he said?
Posted 10/3/2019 4:43 PM (GMT 0)

WV Mike said...
My llmd told me rifampin is stronger than rifabutin. He said they give rifabutin to patients that can't handle rifampin. I asked to switch and that is what he said?

I highly doubt it

- Dr J prescribes Rifabutin - he doesn’t/wouidnt use the weaker of the two...Dr J has been st this for
many many years. He’s not known for prescribing the weaker stuff - more the opposite.

- I took Rifampin for over a year with my previous LLND (who isn’t as aggressive as DrJ and more recently Ive been on Rifabutin and it is causing herxes like I’ve never experienced before.
Posted 10/4/2019 3:03 PM (GMT 0)
What do you guys think about this article on antibiotics?

https://www.lymeknowledge.com/6-antibiotics-to-avoid-if-you-have-pre-existing-conditions/?fbclid=iwar12zmjupyniguhoayx8hb9dhwtmitei0djfcsvgkgr5vgw_otbf8iyfjbm
Posted 10/4/2019 3:51 PM (GMT 0)

HeartsinPain said...
What do you guys think about this article on antibiotics?

https://www.lymeknowledge.com/6-antibiotics-to-avoid-if-you-have-pre-existing-conditions/?fbclid=iwar12zmjupyniguhoayx8hb9dhwtmitei0djfcsvgkgr5vgw_otbf8iyfjbm

Well the info is not news to me -
As it states - certain meds shouldn’t be taken if you have pre existing conditions.
The abx in particular I wouid stay away from are the fluoroquinolones
- you are at risk even without pre existing conditions.

Many are rare - the IH with mino - haven’t heard of anyone getting that - I don’t think it has anything to do with preexisting conditions though. But reading the article - looks like it usually abates when you stop taking it.
Posted 10/4/2019 4:46 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Many are rare - the ICH with mino - haven’t heard of anyone getting that - I don’t think it has anything to do with preexisting conditions though. But reading the article - looks like it usually abates when you stop taking it.

I never had any problems with minocycline, but there's this long thread of people complaining about it:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4138864

The warning about dapsone also applies to proguanil (malarone) and possibly other anti-folates.
Posted 10/4/2019 5:02 PM (GMT 0)
“The warning about dapsone also applies to proguanil (malarone) and possibly other anti folates.”

When I was taking Dapsone I also took 10 mg of leucovorin (folate) to counter that.
Posted 10/4/2019 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
I took folate, but only 400 mcg and it was definitely not enough to prevent anemia.
Posted 10/4/2019 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
Mino gets into the CNS well - so the dizziness and other head symptoms are likely side effects sand not IH

That reminds me tho - I’m overdue for an eye exam - I think the visual fields test is a good one to get plus the optometrist can look at the optic nerve as well.

The optic nerve can be affected with IH.
Posted 10/5/2019 1:15 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Mino gets into the CNS well - so the dizziness and other head symptoms are likely side effects sand not IH

That reminds me tho - I’m overdue for an eye exam - I think the visual fields test is a good one to get plus the optometrist can look at the optic nerve as well.

The optic nerve can be affected with IH.

What is IH?

I had optic nerve issues 2 years ago. Last year, all was good. This year bad again. When it improved, I thought it was because I had been treating bart with herbs for a year. When it was bad again this year, I didn’t know what to think initially. Now, I suspect mold exposure was involved. The optic nerve issues are likely from toxicity driven inflammation.
Posted 10/5/2019 4:12 PM (GMT 0)
IH = Intracranial Hypertension.


Now I’m worrying about it again....
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