HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Neverending Herx...Help!

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 11/3/2019 5:11 AM (GMT 0)
Hi all, so I got my third dose of biweekly Bicillin.
Last week I seemed to have herxes starting Sida Acuta.

I've just been on Bicillin, Sida Acuta, Banderol, and Mora for the past week. Bicillin is my only ABX. I've only tested pos for Lyme. Wasn't tested for Bart. Tho it's suspected. Tested negative through Galaxy the first time. So didn't bother to do it again.

I've been dry brushing, doing Alka seltzer gold, charcoal caps amongst others.

Anyway, I started with what seemed like a strong herx of arm weakness last week, I've had a hard time shaking it. Especially, in my right arm, on top of tingling. It's also correlating with this throat/neck spasm. The weakness will vary in intensity, from mild to moderate.

It seems I herxed on the Bicillin and evidently there's a half life of this of four to five days. I got my shot Wednesday.

Should I ask for another ABX on top of the Bicillin?

So far I've done poorly on Doxy, and Biaxin. Started with gi trouble on Bactrim so quit that, it wasn't helping much anyway.

What else is there? Read dreadful things about Minocycline. With my vestibular system that seems like no go! Rifampin last time was beneficial in the beginning but petered out.

I am also taking curcumin, probiotics, complete Omegas. My LLMD said it wouldn't be probably until the 6th shot before I'd see any improvement. This worries me...help!

Thanks!

Post Edited (ElizKA26) : 11/3/2019 8:25:31 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/3/2019 3:42 PM (GMT 0)
Bicillin helped me tremendously when I first started it in 2014. By 2015, I was feeling much better. Once I had a a surgery in 2016, co-infections, and I believe, EBV jumped in. That changed everything. Because of kidney issues, have cut WWAYYY back on Bicillin. But if you do not have that issue, it is supposed to be okay.

What dose of Bicillin are you on? I was doing 2.4 mu twice a week. Wish I could still do so for the Lyme aspect. I've read it doesn't help with Bartonella or Babesia. Similar to you, I did not do well on other antibiotics. The only other one that seemed to help was zithromax.
Posted 11/3/2019 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
Forgot - I also took nattokinase and serrapatese to break up biofilm. Didn't herx real bad on Bicilliin but it helped so much. Have you tried anything natural like monolaruin? Taking that now for EBV, and it hits bacteria.
Posted 11/3/2019 4:22 PM (GMT 0)
I haven't taken bicillin but I've taken amoxicillin. It makes me herx a little but the lyme disease just came back. Cefdinir was a bit stronger but it didn't eliminate the lyme disease either. I would keep herxing in the same spots and it would just come back. I suspect it just causes borrelia to shed its cell wall, but doesn't kill the bacteria. The cell wall debris causes an inflammatory response (herx) but the bacteria aren't dead, and will revive again later.
Posted 11/3/2019 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
Running Wild i'm doing 1.2 biweekly. Yes, this is a major Herx I realize. Not compared to what I saw last month. Don't have kidney issues...yet at least.

Quin, yes this maybe what's happening. I do feel slightly better than yesterday. So who knows? How are you doing now?
Posted 11/3/2019 6:55 PM (GMT 0)

ElizKA26 said...
Quin, yes this maybe what's happening. I do feel slightly better than yesterday. So who knows? How are you doing now?

I had been taking minocycline, cefdinir, and amoxicillin. I would herx a little, but I wasn't getting better. When I took disulfiram recently I got a major herx, so clearly the bacteria were not gone.

If you're not taking anything for bartonella, do not try taking disulfiram or valproate. These drugs can make bartonella become active and grow, and if you're not taking anything that can kill bartonella it will just get worse. If you can't tolerate doxycycline, minocycline, or bactrim, I suppose you could try rifabutin or methyene blue to kill bart. Depends on what you can tolerate. Bartonella is difficult, as there's just not much that will kill it.

GI pain from bactrim could be bart herx. I found that bartonella herx didn't just cause diarrhea, but a lot of pain and bloating in my abdomen.
Posted 11/3/2019 7:19 PM (GMT 0)
Yikes! Bartonella is difficult to eradicate??
Posted 11/3/2019 7:30 PM (GMT 0)

Quin said...

ElizKA26 said...
Quin, yes this maybe what's happening. I do feel slightly better than yesterday. So who knows? How are you doing now?

I had been taking minocycline, cefdinir, and amoxicillin. I would herx a little, but I wasn't getting better. When I took disulfiram recently I got a major herx, so clearly the bacteria were not gone.

If you're not taking anything for bartonella, do not try taking disulfiram or valproate. These drugs can make bartonella become active and grow, and if you're not taking anything that can kill bartonella it will just get worse. If you can't tolerate doxycycline, minocycline, or bactrim, I suppose you could try rifabutin or methyene blue to kill bart. Depends on what you can tolerate. Bartonella is difficult, as there's just not much that will kill it.

GI pain from bactrim could be bart herx. I found that bartonella herx didn't just cause diarrhea, but a lot of pain and bloating in my abdomen.

Thank you, I actually feel markedly better, but I will talk to the doc about something for the Bart. I know I have Bart bc I developed Sjogren's and my LLMD says that is very Bart related.

I'm scared to try Mino. I was on Bactrim but yeah, had terrible cramps, bloating, but no diarrhea. What about Rifabutin? I've tried Rifampin? Wasn't strong enough. Biaxin made me hypoglycemic. I am taking Sida Acuta.
Posted 11/3/2019 7:42 PM (GMT 0)
Mino, doxy, cefdinir, amoxy alone won’t be enough for chronic bart anyway.

Bactrim (plus another abx) may work - Rifampin and Rifabutin(plus a 2nd abx) works well usually - and the best of all is the fluoroquinolone class if abx - which I refused to take... because if fda black box warnings.

Rifabutin is stronger than Rifampin for bart.
The bart “guru” Dr M uses Rifabutin - sometimes after Rifampin and other times right away.

Rifabutin caused herxing for me even after I had been on Rifampin a long time and a short period of bactrim.
First time I’ve had a fever from a herx was from Rifabutin
Posted 11/3/2019 8:31 PM (GMT 0)

ElizKA26 said...
I'm scared to try Mino. I was on Bactrim but yeah, had terrible cramps, bloating, but no diarrhea. What about Rifabutin? I've tried Rifampin? Wasn't strong enough. Biaxin made me hypoglycemic. I am taking Sida Acuta.

The cramps and bloating can be a sign of bart die-off. So maybe the bactrim was actually working.

Rifampin/rifabutin can raise CYP3A4 and cause adrenal stress. If you had trouble with biaxin, be careful of this.

I got bartonella that was resistant to biaxin and rifampin, so there's a risk that these just don't work. I didn't try rifabutin.
Posted 11/3/2019 10:12 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, i learn something new and not encouraging everyday about this horrific malady. But I'd rather be informed and not have my head in the sand.

I have taken Azithromycin for sinusitis before and did fine. The first time I was treated for Lyme and co-infections my LLMD put me on azithromycin then took me off when she heard PVCs while listening to my heart.

But after this last incident w/Biaxin I went to a cardio and got an U/S, holter, and ECG and it was negative. I realize the Biaxin was disturbing electrolytes.

I was on Cipro in 2014 for initial Lyme treatment for about a week as a treatment protocol, was working but got off it bc I got scared by all the side effects it comes with.

I did well on Cipro in 97 for a UTI though and finished the course. I'll talk to my doc about the Bactrim, it completely worked the last time took it.

Post Edited (ElizKA26) : 11/3/2019 3:16:55 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/4/2019 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
Bartonella can develop resistance to azithromycin. It's possible that the azithromycin just didn't work.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5035977/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022937

Bartonella is notorious for being resistant to antibiotics. If you got bloating and cramps from bactrim, that's a good sign that it's killing bartonella.
Posted 11/4/2019 12:53 AM (GMT 0)
No, that's not the reason my doc took me off the azithromycin last time. She was worried about the whole cardiac arrhythmia side effect associated with Azithromycin and Biaxin. But thank you! 😉

Actually, this Bicillin is really working. The chronic neck pain I've had and an electric shock in the back of the left side of my neck is mysteriously gone! My arms feel a bit less weak today than yesterday! Time is a great asset!
Posted 11/4/2019 1:18 AM (GMT 0)
ElizKA

Have you tried Epsom salt baths for detoxing - I found them the best for my nerve pain.
Not hot - just comfortable

They’re great following the dry brushing .
Posted 11/4/2019 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
I have tried dried brushing and Epsom salt baths but not the Epsom salts recently. It was okay, nothing special. But I appreciate the suggestion! smile
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply