Yes, we do need 8 hrs of sleep.................

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-many-hours-of-sleep-do-you-actually-need

Hard to sleep for most with lyme.

But even for those not sick, 8 hrs of sleep on a work night? ......Full time job with commute, work out at gym, make meals at home, run errands (buy stuff, food ect), , fix things that break (home, car), some time time to relax, and sleep 8 hrs on a work night?........sometimes yes, but good luck.

Not a perfect world. This is why some marry for $. (Or play the lottery)

What this article does not mention is SLEEP QUALITY.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/22/2020 8:01:23 PM (GMT-7)

As self employed for many years I have almost always spent 8 hours in bed. Now its 9 hours most days and a bit less on weekends.

I rather be more effective and sleep more.

Thoughts/experience on sleep:

I remember for years with lyme, Id only sleep decent every other night at best, otherwise I was laying there almost all night or waking after 2-4 hrs of light sleep. Didnt dream for 20 years. Was a zombie the next day and naps are what kept me functioning. It would wax and wane like this for two decades.

After lyme ABX (post 2016), I would sleep sometimes ten hours solid but still without dreaming and would still be tired. This lasted about six months.

Now I usually sleep deeply and dream again. And feel more energized the next day with less than eight hrs of sleep. I like seven but get less on week nights.

Winter hours in the Northern Hemisphere- With flex time, I get up with the sun and start work a little later than most people. I find that winter sun is valuable in the AM ,vs driving to work in the dark. Tried both. Feel better with AM sun. November had no sun though it seemed (I hate November).

1000Daisies - I assume lymies who cant sleep feel the way I used to feel- the whole body's edno and nervous system is messed up. When your edgy and cant relax the body and brain your not going to sleep.

If a stressful event happens, its similar- but not as bad as it used to be.
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WBF - I slept good as a kid, but not as a young teen, so lyme, thyroid or something else started happening back then as I was very fatigued and had the beginning of life long muscle pain too. Was an outdoor kid.

I have low winter energy from lack of sun too, which is different. Thats already improving more sun this Jan vs Dec / Nov.

I have always taken 15-30 min power naps my whole life and feel great after. Even just shutting eyes for that time helps.

Ive never been super energetic, but learned to "flip a switch " in my body for athletic performance even with minimal sleep- thats the power of adrenal glands. I took a course on self controlling adrenals "hyping up" for athletic performance as a young teen - and I used that as a band-aid over my fatigue. It worked but prob not healthy. I would need to nap after the event.

Slept about seven hrs last night with no alarm.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/25/2020 1:24:45 PM (GMT-7)

I am thinking about trying Lithium Orotate now, as I've heard from a couple of good sources that it is a good supplement.

I have changed my eating habits to include 12 hour windows of no food. In addition to this, I have doubled the calories I eat for breakfast and 1/2'd the calories I eat for supper. This allows for at least 1 to 2 hours of more sleep. For me, my lack of sleep appears to be a metabolic issue.

Prior to lyme I didn’t eat breakfast
So I went 15 hours or longer for many many years.
My coworkers said it was very unhealthy. (Many we’re on several meds- cholesterol, blood pressure, anti depressants, etc)

Because I take meds now, I can’t do that - need to eat breakfast after antibiotics.


But hoping to return to fasting from 7/8:00 pm to noon/1:00 the next day.

I have been having issues sleeping lately which is frustrating and I find that a bad nights sleep really dose affect my whole day. I seem to fall asleep ok but then I wake up during the night and can not get back to bed. Someone once told me that waking up at certain times correlates with different issues that you are struggling with, so pretty interesting. Astroman, you said adaptogens should not be used long term, do you know how long is a good amount of time to take them?

Post Edited (CalmLittleBuddha) : 2/16/2020 5:39:37 PM (GMT-7)

Astro, I did have issues the first few nights but it is not an issue now. I can even intermittent fast using a 16/8 protocol with no issues, I'm not really even hungry. It is like once I started doing this, whatever bacterial/fungal imbalance I had changed. There was a negative to it though. It's actually a positive but I see it as a negative. My immune response has revved up and my cuticles have changed and my teeth now hurt. This usually happens when I have reduced caloric intake.

I have been on ashwagandha for years, and many doctors have known this and said it was fine when I asked. I also have heard not to take adaptogens for too long, though, from the interwebs. There are herbs with adaptogenic properties that people take for years for other reasons, like milk thistle for liver support and echinacea for immune support, but no one seems concerned about those. I wish there were more research about this!