COVID-19 and Lyme

Starting a new thread about this coronavirus, with a different focus....

As with any virus, the people most likely to die or have complications from COVID-19 reportedly are the elderly and people with depressed immune systems. There is some controversy about whether those of us with Lyme are generically immunocompromised, as opposed to just immunocompromised in ways that benefit Lyme itself (e.g. low CD57) so my questions are:

Are we in that group of people who are more likely to have a bad experience?
Are viruses in general more risky for us?
Or does Lyme just knock out the part of our immune system that fights Lyme and leave the parts that fight viruses intact?

I often have white blood cells in the low range of normal, and sometimes slightly low. My neutrophils and other WBCs that fight viruses are usually average. My immunoglobulin subclass that fights viruses and bacteria is slightly low. My natural killer cells are all normal except for CD-57. I don't have much of an immune response during a virus (no fever, mild symptoms) but the inflammatory after-effects can last for weeks or months, so clearly I have some sort of immune dysfunction going on. I tell people that I'm immunocompromised because it's easier than explaining the intricacies of my immune system, but I know folks here have thought about this.

What say you? Are we extra fragile?

Well in basic terms, I believe the way it works is that the immune system is always trying to fight off foreign invaders, germs, bacteria etc.

Every now and then it lets something slip by and that's when we get sick.

When we get sick the symptoms that we notice are actually our own body's process, such as our blood vessels expanding causing a sore throat. It's not the bacteria itself that causes these symptoms; it's our body doing its thing.

So there's 2 options here.

Either people with Lyme have an immune system that's so turned up from fighting Lyme that nothing (or rarely anything) slips by anymore.

Or

People with Lyme have an immune system that's so busy fighting Lyme that it lets things slip by but the body doesn't react to it. Hence, the body doesn't do things like expand it's blood vessels.

The question in the second case though is, does that mean that some of these illnesses such as the common cold, are really just something that would go away on its own? Meaning that by default our immune system is too protective of us?

I go back and forth over the years between these theories and I came to the conclusion that I just don't know.

What I do know though is that people with Lyme really do get sick a lot less. It's a very strange phenomenon.

Post Edited (RainyCloud) : 2/26/2020 4:57:32 PM (GMT-7)

This article answers some of these questions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/02/19/how-coronavirus-kills/

“ While the virus attacks and kills cells in all cases, serious illness will depend on how the immune system responds, and that can be influenced by age, gender, genetics and underlying medical conditions. The initial damage caused by the virus can trigger a powerful and counterproductive overreaction by the immune system itself.

“What you get is the initial damage and rush of inflammatory cells, but the damage is so extensive that the body’s immune response is completely overwhelmed — which causes even more immune response, more immune cells and more damage,” said Matthew Frieman, a virologist at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. . . . .
“If the virus replicates very quickly, before your body has a chance to try and prevent it with an immune response, or if the immune response comes in too late, then it can’t control the virus and starts going berserk,” said Anthony Fehr, a virologist at the University of Kansas.

This is what scientists refer to as a “cytokine storm,” which causes the immune system to start sending cells ready to do battle into the lung. At that point, it’s not just the virus doing damage to the body; the immune system begins wreaking havoc on the infected person — also known as the “host” in medical parlance.

The general risk factors for this mismatch between the immune system and any respiratory illness include advanced age and underlying chronic illnesses, including diabetes and high blood pressure, though public health experts are eager to understand more about who is most vulnerable in the current outbreak.”

- From what I have experienced the past few years with minor illnesses, it’s the cytokine storms we have to watch out for and proactively mitigate. I have used Chinese skullcap, kudzu, SPM Active from Metagenics, Vit C, etc to help reign in runaway inflammatory response. You need to take action immediately using all the anti-inflammatories in your arsenal. Once it starts, it can quickly surge through the body. It’s a scary feeling. I have had mini storms post illness and post antibiotics more than once.

saraeli- I first wondered why you made coronavirus post #2..................then it was obvious.

Yes we need a serious post on this for answers. Maybe even put "serious only" in this the title. Im not kidding.

We should leave the bible quotes, conspiracy theories and end of world theories for the other one.

***What should those do with lowered immune systems? **
------------------------------

My measured immune system is similar but less than yours and with low B cells. My low IgA and very low IgG created low gamma globulin protien. My Dx for now is hypogammaglobulinemia, but Im very close to "Common variable immunodeficiency (CVID)", which makes for a scary future.

Wikepedia - [ "hypogammaglobulinemia, an abnormally low level of immunoglobulins in the blood. It is thought to affect between 1 in 25,000 to 1 in 50,000 people worldwide."........."CVID shortens the life-span; but no study currently has a median age recorded. One study suggests the median age of death for men and women is 42 and 44 years old, respectively but most patients involved in the study are still alive...." ]

Fortunately, unlike you guys, my body is less stressed since I'm in "remission" with no lyme symptoms for a few years, but this is apparently what it did to my immune system as the total markers were normal 12 years ago. Proof that Lyme can cause permanent immune damage.. ***And this coronavirus is prime example why my low immune cells worried me about the future.***

***I get colds (virus) on occasion, less than average population Id say, and they go away fast with zinc lozenges (Cold Ease). This might be effective for any upper res viruses? *****

Ive never tested positive for flu (virus) in my total 5 decades. But I get bacterial and yeast issues easily.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For newbies: Immune cells are mysterious. Drs are very uneducated in this area. Even the good ones (vary rare)Ive had appointments with admit this is a gray area of medicine.

If your Dr says CD-57 is BS, your Dr is clueless on this topic and apparently refuses to learn what it actually represents. Websites that say its BS are, again, repeating clueless-ness. If this and / or your white blood cell count are low, your are immune compromised, to some extent (see below). These are top total averages of immune cell classifications under them. Note, many cd-57's improve, some dont even after being "cured".

There are many "cured" lymies worldwide left with lowered immune systems. This is why "remission" is a better term than "cured" because you might not be the same as before..

If your immune system stays low, you are higher risk come down with something someday, lyme or "other". What Ive read, does not talk about lyme, just other illnesses like Strep, staph, autoimmune, cancer, ect. I had a Leukemia test for this reason. Plus two full abdominal cavity MRI's.

Now for the good part. As it was explained to me, these tests measure volume and are somewhat different than immune strength. This is why two Drs said I'm not sick all the time, as some would be with my immune lab values.

Sorry if this sounds depressing, it is. Did I go overboard here with info? I dont know. Where should I put this?

I made a post about immune last week, with almost no reader interest, people need to understand that this is not a joke, if you have it (few know), its important.

Post Edited (astroman) : 2/26/2020 10:46:35 PM (GMT-7)

WalkingbyFaith- Since what kills these people is based on immune response, I wonder if low/compromised immune system is better for this?

Im reaching for positives.........that.......or start writing my will.

sandyfeet said...

The reason the elderly tend to have problems with the flu is that their immune system overreacts and this does describe some of us with late stage lyme but strangely not all.

I thought it was the young and healthy who die from a robust immune response. The elderly have weakened immune systems and the very young have underdeveloped immune systems. Seems the chronically ill can be a mixed bag, even among those with the same chronic illness(es). A lot is dependent on the immediate immune, genomic, infective, and environmentally toxic states of the individual from my estimation.

With the elderly and very young, with things like pneumonia, I wonder if it’s the immune system that is responsible for their dying, or if they die because they don’t have the strength or ability to clear the lungs. With bronchitis (and pneumonia I assume), coughing up mucus is how you clear the bronchial tubes or the lungs. Those who can’t end up in the hospital having fluid drawn out with a tube, right? Also, those with damaged lungs would be most at risk. Scarring of the lungs or hardening of the avioli(??) would mean less ability to clear fluid and higher risk of dying from any type of lung infection. Perhaps the health of the lungs even more important than the immune response in these type illnesses. Don’t know the science in this. Just thinking out loud.

Back to us. Stress factors in, too. We can’t forget that. That is one of my personal concerns at the moment. My stress is at an all time high right now, and I’m definitely not getting enough sleep on top of that. Worrying about a worldwide pandemic won’t make this part better. Best to stay aware; stay prepared with herbs, supplements, meds on hand; and support immune system and overall health every way we can.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 2/27/2020 6:00:04 AM (GMT-7)

Just take an extra dose of Colloidal Silver daily, hope for the best, and stay away from other people. If I wasn't on SFN right now I'ld stock up on my favorite vodka as well.

Astroman,

When you say you have low IgG and IgA, do you mean below lab ranges or at the low end of the normal lab ranges?

I still wonder about the “slipping by” theory. I haven’t gotten normal sick in 6 or 7 years. In the Fall my youngest got the nasty respiratory bug that looked identical to flu but tested neg. A few weeks later I exercised (eliptical) for first time in months. While exercising I started coughing and chest hurt. I thought I was having a heart attack! I kept coughing and went to bed. Next day fever. So it was like it was there and the exercising brought it out and then my immune system suddenly saw it. Or, I guess other theory still could hold - the exercising suppressed overactive immune system and I then got sick. Ugh, drives me nuts this one!

As for coronavirus, it’s scary but there’s no point in worrying or freaking out. I think flu is more deadly. But such is life.

I mentioned MYRRH in a previous post. A Dr. Gary Ridnaour (sic) wrote a book on the 1918 pandemic.

People would go to work in the morning feeling fine and be dead by noon.

MYRRH one of the gifts given to the new born Jesus. It is used in incense.

Since I use light therapy, and have found it effective for other viruses I will continue to use it. An example was my wife visiting family/ when she got home she started having problems with her eyes; A quick look on the internet showed that they had an outbreak of German Measles. I did the ubi, then put her under a blue light. By the next day she was fine Got back home and discovered out grandson had them also. He was 2 at the time and couldn't get him to put the fiber optic under his tongue. So, just used the blue light. In about 40 minutes his fever of 104 was gone and he was asleep.

.I would expect all viruses to be affected by light also. As for a vaccine, since this is a RNA which is unstable and mutates, I wouldn't be expecting any new wonder drugs there. The common flu is RNA and each year they have to develop a new vaccine...

"stock up on my favorite vodka as well"

Vodka maybe rumored to kill lyme, but its also hard on the liver, so its hard on your immune capabilities too.

After the gut absorbs proteins (if your gut works right), these proteins go to the liver and bone marrow to make immune cell protein immunoglobulins. Taxed liver = low immunoglobulins.

Where can I buy Myrrh , 5 pounds for $32? That's incredible

I have the flu and I am using Alina, NAC, and Oil of Oregano. Works awesome. When I am on the drugs I am 100% normal, they wear off about 6-7 hours and I might cough or something.

I thought if you had Lyme you don't get the flu? I didn't have the flu for 4-5 years or something. I think I got it in Feb 2015 before I was diagnosis with lyme.

Lightlife said...
Where did you see a bruhner protocol for covid?
What is it?

Look here (woodland essence)

https://woodlandessence.com/products/cv-4-bottle-kit?_pos=1&_sid=dff2346ad&_ss=r&variant=31927328899165