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Best Bartonella Test

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Posted 8/17/2020 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
What is best (most reliable) test for Bartonella? Do you have to go to a special lab to have blood drawn? My mom had a Bart test done through Walk-In Labs, and it was negative. Thinking about getting something more reliable to have a better idea if she has Bart.
Posted 8/17/2020 7:50 PM (GMT 0)
The Galaxy Diagnostics - but I believe it's quite expensive.


Having said that, I tested via per with a lab in Ontario...not a known lab and I had a positive bart test.
I think it cost me $100.
Posted 8/17/2020 8:27 PM (GMT 0)
very tricky subject

Bart is one of the most difficult co-infectionsn to detect for a whole number of reasons.
- v v low cell count of organisms in the blood most of the time = below PCR detection limits - this is the big one
-immunosuppressive organism - so patients may not produce expected antibodies - and serology tests often negative esp in chronic infections.
-difficult to culture organism

there are also many species that infect humans - and most labs do not test for all of those - mainly only Bartonella henselae - but there are 10 or more that infect humans - and more discovered all the time.

galaxy labs do a special process they have developed in conjunction with the famous Vet and zoonotic disease expert Ed Breschwerdz.

they have gone to some lengths to improve the sensitivity
they take 3 separate blood draws on different days to improve chances of getting organisms in the blood.
they then incubate this blood in special media developed to mimic insects body fluids to better culture and enrich the sample

then the perform PCR on the sample and i believe they can detect many different bart species this way.

it's still not foolproof - but probably has the best sensitivity of any available test

the same issue exists as with all proprietary tests - these companies' primary purpose is to make money.

be aware there is no obligation on them to prove their tests work prior to marketing them via independent 3rd party validation programs.
Posted 8/17/2020 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
"be aware there is no obligation on them to prove their tests work prior to marketing them via independent 3rd party validation programs."

I believe that's why there was criticism regarding the one lab - now I can't remember it's name....
They tested urine.

edit: the lab is DNAConnexions
Posted 8/17/2020 11:21 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks. It sure gets a bit complicated. We'll have to pray about whether to get tested. Not even sure Mom has bart, but she was bitten by a cat years ago and has some symptoms that could be bart. Right now, she's taking multiple supplements/herbs including Oil of Oregano and Houttuynia.
Posted 8/19/2020 2:38 AM (GMT 0)
I personally always came up negative through IGenix and through Labcorp.
I know people who came up positive on DNAConnexions.

My lyme treatment included treatment for bart based on my symptoms, and lo and behold it helped. So I did not do further lab tests because they are all pricey.
Posted 8/21/2020 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
I did get a positive PCR test for bart with DNAConnexions, but only once out of several tries. Bartonella is very elusive.

However bartonella very consistently caused high bilirubin and high B6, and somewhat less consistently caused low protein in blood.
Posted 8/31/2020 2:24 AM (GMT 0)
I did Galaxy last summer and Bart came up negative. Just got my IGeneX Bart results. The Western blot tests for 4 sub-species of Bart. I came up positive for 3 of them: henselae, vinsonii and elizabethae.
Posted 8/31/2020 3:19 AM (GMT 0)

ToddPaul said...
I did Galaxy last summer and Bart came up negative. Just got my IGeneX Bart results. The Western blot tests for 4 sub-species of Bart. I came up positive for 3 of them: henselae, vinsonii and elizabethae.

I hadn’t heard of vinsonii or elizabethae
Posted 8/31/2020 6:13 AM (GMT 0)

Quin said...
I did get a positive PCR test for bart with DNAConnexions, but only once out of several tries. Bartonella is very elusive.

However bartonella very consistently caused high bilirubin and high B6, and somewhat less consistently caused low protein in blood.

how high was your bilirubin? Mine was testing between 1.7-1.9 at peak symptoms. Funny thing is I’ve always had an above range bilirubin (even when I was “healthy”), I’m 24 now and a test from 2010 was above range but not high enough for my PCP to be concerned. 5 months into double abx and buhners herbs and last week it tested at .7 - first time I’ve ever seen it healthy. Still dealing with some symptoms but definitely improved. I think the RBC’s are being protected now by the sida acuta - possibly persisters in the endothelial causing symptoms to persist?
Posted 8/31/2020 7:47 PM (GMT 0)

ToddPaul said...
I did Galaxy last summer and Bart came up negative. Just got my IGeneX Bart results. The Western blot tests for 4 sub-species of Bart. I came up positive for 3 of them: henselae, vinsonii and elizabethae.

that's interesting - as in theory the culture plus PCR method Galaxy use should be the most sensitive - and unlike many other labs/test for bart they are certainly aware of many different species of bart in humans - so I assume they test for multiple species.

this may mean that the 4 species western blot approach from IgenX is also of high sensitivity - at least compared to standard ELISA type serology and at a more affordable price point.
(looks like an IgG western blot for all four species of Bart is around $225 )

thanks for posting

Post Edited (Garzie) : 8/31/2020 1:53:34 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/1/2020 12:49 AM (GMT 0)

ToddPaul said...
I did Galaxy last summer and Bart came up negative. Just got my IGeneX Bart results. The Western blot tests for 4 sub-species of Bart. I came up positive for 3 of them: henselae, vinsonii and elizabethae.

That’s interesting. So WB was positive for bartonella while PCR was negative. WB measures antibodies, so could mean past infection that cleared. PCR if positive means 100% sure it’s there. PCR negative just means it wasn’t found in the sample.

Do you still have symptoms that seem to be bart?
Posted 9/1/2020 6:40 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...

ToddPaul said...
I did Galaxy last summer and Bart came up negative. Just got my IGeneX Bart results. The Western blot tests for 4 sub-species of Bart. I came up positive for 3 of them: henselae, vinsonii and elizabethae.

That’s interesting. So WB was positive for bartonella while PCR was negative. WB measures antibodies, so could mean past infection that cleared. PCR if positive means 100% sure it’s there. PCR negative just means it wasn’t found in the sample.

Do you still have symptoms that seem to be bart?

good point!

but the test is offered as either IgG or IgM western blot - and I would guess typically done both together in a Bartonella panel with other tests.

so it would be perhaps of interest to hear from ToddPaul if he had both IgG and IgM as that would point towards chronic infection still present - or just IgG which could well be past infection now cleared.
Posted 9/1/2020 7:08 PM (GMT 0)

loski01 said...
how high was your bilirubin? Mine was testing between 1.7-1.9 at peak symptoms. Funny thing is I’ve always had an above range bilirubin (even when I was “healthy”), I’m 24 now and a test from 2010 was above range but not high enough for my PCP to be concerned. 5 months into double abx and buhners herbs and last week it tested at .7 - first time I’ve ever seen it healthy. Still dealing with some symptoms but definitely improved. I think the RBC’s are being protected now by the sida acuta - possibly persisters in the endothelial causing symptoms to persist?

My bilirubin got up to 2.0 at one point. It's lower now, but I've always had slightly high bilirubin.
Posted 9/1/2020 7:45 PM (GMT 0)
Bart has not cleared in any way. I just did my Lyme SOT 6 weeks ago and bart is flaring.

To be exact my results were:
vinsonii and elizabethae IgM +
henselae IgG +
Posted 9/2/2020 9:17 AM (GMT 0)
OK so according to classical thinking - the IgM results should be evidence of current infection with those organisms.

The IgG positive tends to be associated with past OR current but longstanding infections. simply because of the long timeframe it takes the body to make the IgG immunoglobulins

the situation in Lyme disease(borrelia infection) is a little less clear - for instance, it's well documented that persons with Chronic Lyme may well have both IgG and IgM antibodies to Borrelia - and this is attributed to the organisms ability to change its outer surface proteins regularly so as to appear to be a new organism to the immune system and stay a step ahead of getting cleaned up.

However, despite the often similar symptoms, Bartonella is a very different organism. I have not read anywhere in the studies or books I have come across that it can do the same thing with outer surface proteins. so this would not seem to apply to Bartonella

so I would say the classic interpretation is likely to be the best way to view the result.

I would take it as evidence that though the galaxy test is normally regarded as the most sensitive we know of - if you did in fact have an infection with Bartonella at that time ( looks highly likely), then even the galaxy test is not able to detect bart PCR in all cases.

I would guess that this is due to the known feature of Bart that organisms are just not in the blood in any measurable amount all of the time ( in fact known to be only in phases)

i think it helps us put the value of the relative tests into perspective

thanks for posting
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