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Possible future treatment for BART

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Posted 7/15/2021 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
https://www.lymedisease.org/research-consortium-bartonellosis/
Posted 7/15/2021 11:21 PM (GMT 0)
What is the drug or is it a mystery now? I didn’t see it in the article.
Posted 7/15/2021 11:40 PM (GMT 0)

Tulane University said...
During the next three and a half years, these established investigators and their highly skilled research teams will develop a novel drug for the treatment of bartonelloses.

A new drug...hmm. We actually know what kills bartonella, the problem is that all the known drugs that are really effective also have bad side effects.
Posted 7/16/2021 1:17 AM (GMT 0)
Which ones are the best that kill?
Posted 7/16/2021 2:44 AM (GMT 0)

Cosey said...
Which ones are the best that kill?

The fluoroquinolones - Cipro is one

They have an fda black box warning - for two (or is it three?) different concerns.

One is risk of tendon rupture
I’ll have to try and remember the others

Edit Tendon rupture,
Peripheral nerve damage, and
Central nervous system damage
Posted 7/16/2021 9:43 AM (GMT 0)
cipro also has high risk of C-Diff - compared to other abx
Posted 7/16/2021 9:46 AM (GMT 0)
the problem with all the traditional drugs for bart - is on their own they tend to be only poor to average at killing bartonella persister cells - and as such its vary hard to eradicate the infection with them.

later research show combinations of traditional bart abx( eg cipro or azithro ) with rifampicin or methylene blue - and possibly other anti-persister agents - to be the most effective
Posted 7/16/2021 1:33 PM (GMT 0)
As Garzie noted above; the normal Bart treatment drugs; doxy, rifampin, rifabutin, azithromycin, biaxin and yes even Cipro only treat the growing (log) form of the germ. I've had to use 3-4 of them combined to get results and yes they have worked. I couldn't take Cipro due to tendonitis (but I can confirm it was very effective for Bart - really stirred it up). I did not find Disulfiram to have any activity against Bart for me.

I believe an effective treatment regimen must include treating all of the forms of the germs (at once). I also have found that it becomes easier to treat Bart once you have treated Babesia first (if necessary). Babesia has numerous immune suppressing actions.

Lately I have focuses on treating the persister forms of the germ with good results. I can say for certain that Pyrazinamide has dramatic activity against Bart (with severe Herxing) but it has helped me. I have also been using liposomal oregano oil with good results. I do bi weekly blood draws to monitor kidney and liver functions and have noted that on the PZA protocol my levels have returned to my (pre treatment) levels which I find interesting because PZA is supposed to be toxic to the liver. YMMV.
Posted 7/16/2021 7:22 PM (GMT 0)
Hasn't anyone had better luck with herbal protocol and antimicrobials for bart rather than antibiotics? Think I've come across very few ppl who tried it the herbal way. Idc if it's a slower process, I just want to get better and antibiotics nearly finished me off trust me.
Posted 7/16/2021 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
Many of us do both - herbals and abx.
Even with my Pharma leaning llmd, I was on some herbals - Cryptolepis is one…he had me on.
Posted 7/16/2021 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
i am trying a mainly herbal approach for bart

i believe i have lyme and likely bart or something v like it

i have tried doxy, azithro, rifampicin combined for a few months - but my liver enzymes went high and i had to stop

so i have been taking a comprehensive lyme / immune protocol based on buhners 2nd edition healing lyme book, for over 2 years now - i made some progress - but it was v v slow

so started a combination of buhners co-infection herbs in addition to the lyme herbs - sida, alchornea, Cryptolepis, teasel, berberis
they caused me lots of herx like reactions so i have been building up very slowly

took me over 1 year to get there but i reached full target dose around 1 month ago - and made some further improvements.

have added Methylene blue for bart persisters - and ivermectin for further immune modulation

most things that are anti-microbial case me to have significant symptoms flares - headaches, body aches, fatigue, sweating, palpitations, insomnia.

i feel i may have plateaued - so i think i am going to try pulsing some clarithromycin and rifampicin on top of the above to try and move it forward.
Posted 7/16/2021 8:29 PM (GMT 0)
Just because cryptolepis is natural doesn't mean it doesn't have side effects. I couldn't tolerate it.

A lot of people recommend clarithromycin plus rifampin, but my infection was resistant to both. I took that for 6 months and made little progress.

Cipro has a black box warning for tendon rupture and neuropathy.

Methylene blue has a black box warning for serotonin syndrome.

I ultimately did it with depakote, which has a black box warning for hepatotoxicity and other things, but my liver function is good, so I took the risk. Depakote won't kill bart outright, but it stirred it up enough that I could kill it with minocycline.

Not a lot of good options for bartonella.
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