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Posted 8/2/2021 6:15 PM (GMT 0)
I have a question regarding taking Banderol, Samento and Stevia.

If only taking these herbs (or all they supplements?) would I herx just from taking these if I had a Lyme or co-infection?

Or would abx be needed to cause herxing?

Wondering if I can somehow help diagnose Lyme with just taking these things. Basically if I feel worse after taking these then theres no other explanation.
Posted 8/2/2021 6:17 PM (GMT 0)
People have herxed from the things you mentioned.

But it really depends on the person.

Personally, I didn't notice anything from any of them.
Posted 8/2/2021 6:19 PM (GMT 0)
One doctor joked that disulfiram is the perfect drug to determine if you have Lyme, because the herxes are so noticable.

Not sure if it was a joke or a semi-joke though, might be worth looking into with your doctor.

Have you had an iGenex test?
Posted 8/2/2021 7:28 PM (GMT 0)
Funny you say that I was just watching a video yesterday they were discussing Disulfarim. Gonna do an Igenx test this week. Ive had a few tests already ELISA, Bartonella, WB with PCR stuff and DNA Connexions.
ELISA, Bartonella, PCR stuff and DNA negative but a few bands came up with WB. They were weak in strength I guess but concerning bands too.

Trying to figure out what Igenx panel to do. Im feeling better than I was a few weeks ago. Not sure what to give the credit to. Seemed to rebound right after starting Methylated B Vitamins.

RainyCloud said...
One doctor joked that disulfiram is the perfect drug to determine if you have Lyme, because the herxes are so noticable.

Not sure if it was a joke or a semi-joke though, might be worth looking into with your doctor.

Have you had an iGenex test?

Posted 8/2/2021 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Rider400,

I did these iGenex tests:

Lyme Western Blot IgM
Lyme Western Blot IgG

On the test requisition form it's currently test code#: 188 and 189.

They are $125 each, so $250 total.
Posted 8/2/2021 8:27 PM (GMT 0)

Rider400 said...
I have a question regarding taking Banderol, Samento and Stevia.

If only taking these herbs (or all they supplements?) would I herx just from taking these if I had a Lyme or co-infection?

Or would abx be needed to cause herxing?

Wondering if I can somehow help diagnose Lyme with just taking these things. Basically if I feel worse after taking these then theres no other explanation.

You do not need antibiotics to herx. I herxed from Cat's Claw before I knew I had Lyme, that's what led to my diagnosis.
Posted 8/2/2021 10:04 PM (GMT 0)
Anything that kills off microbes can lead to a herx. You absolutely can herx from the herbs you listed because they are antimicrobial. That said, some people herx more from some things than others. How long have you been taking these? It can take a while for enough endotoxins to build up in your detox pathways, especially early in treatment.
Posted 8/5/2021 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
I was just starting them now as I wait for Igenex results. I’m concerned taking them as I’ve got this MTHFR along with potential MCAS thing and won’t know if it’s working and I’m experiencing a herx or if I’m just allergic to the herbs.

saraeli said...
Anything that kills off microbes can lead to a herx. You absolutely can herx from the herbs you listed because they are antimicrobial. That said, some people herx more from some things than others. How long have you been taking these? It can take a while for enough endotoxins to build up in your detox pathways, especially early in treatment.

Posted 8/5/2021 11:08 PM (GMT 0)
Greetings Everyone, I am new and not sure if this is the right place to ask about this or not. If this is not the right place please direct me to the right place for this question and apologies in advance. After 8 Doctors Dermatologist included I have not been diagnosed with anything. Based on the type of skin out breaks and itching it appears to candida , or lyme some type of something of the sorts. With Hashimoto's (one thyroid) lots of issues occur. I recently started taking Japanese Knotweed and Morinda and today my heart pounded/ race with slight twinge like pains. My question is has anyone else experience such while taking Japanese knotweed, or morinda? Thank you so very much for your patience.
Posted 8/6/2021 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
Welcome to the forum predestined! I’ve not taken morinda, but Japanese knotweed don’t do that to me.
Posted 8/6/2021 6:39 AM (GMT 0)

Predestined1 said...
Greetings Everyone, I am new and not sure if this is the right place to ask about this or not. If this is not the right place please direct me to the right place for this question and apologies in advance. After 8 Doctors Dermatologist included I have not been diagnosed with anything. Based on the type of skin out breaks and itching it appears to candida , or lyme some type of something of the sorts. With Hashimoto's (one thyroid) lots of issues occur. I recently started taking Japanese Knotweed and Morinda and today my heart pounded/ race with slight twinge like pains. My question is has anyone else experience such while taking Japanese knotweed, or morinda? Thank you so very much for your patience.

Hi - welcome to the forum,

Have you thought about testing for Lyme disease?
For approx $250/300 you can get Lyme testing.
Posted 8/6/2021 10:07 AM (GMT 0)
yes many many herbs can trigger herx like reactions - often even more severe than from abx

it does vary from person tremendously though - some people can take one herb in large amounts and have no noticeable reaction - and another can take the same thing in tiny amounts and have a big reaction - the reasons for this are not well understood.

however pretty much all of them are pretty broad antimicrobials and so the reaction is non-specific
ie they are active against a wide range of microbes ( if you think about it, that's usually what the plants developed them for) and as such it makes it difficult to draw conclusions about which infection is present from which herb drives a herx like reaction.

there are a few which are thought to be active for certain bacterial infections more than others
eg houttuynia for bartonella and mycoplasma - but reading buhner's books on houttuynia he makes it clear its actually a pretty good broad antimicrobial active against fungal and bacterial species - so it seems this is a bit of a common dumbing down kind of myth - based on an over simplification
ie - "houttuynia works for bartonella - therefore if i have a herx from houttuynia then i must have bartonella"
Posted 8/6/2021 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
Do these herbs actually kill of disease? Or just kill biofilms and such? Isnt a HERX from lyme/etc toxins?

Garzie said...
yes many many herbs can trigger herx like reactions - often even more severe than from abx

it does vary from person tremendously though - some people can take one herb in large amounts and have no noticeable reaction - and another can take the same thing in tiny amounts and have a big reaction - the reasons for this are not well understood.

however pretty much all of them are pretty broad antimicrobials and so the reaction is non-specific
ie they are active against a wide range of microbes ( if you think about it, that's usually what the plants developed them for) and as such it makes it difficult to draw conclusions about which infection is present from which herb drives a herx like reaction.

there are a few which are thought to be active for certain bacterial infections more than others
eg houttuynia for bartonella and mycoplasma - but reading buhner's books on houttuynia he makes it clear its actually a pretty good broad antimicrobial active against fungal and bacterial species - so it seems this is a bit of a common dumbing down kind of myth - based on an over simplification
ie - "houttuynia works for bartonella - therefore if i have a herx from houttuynia then i must have bartonella"

Posted 8/6/2021 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
“ Or just kill biofilms and such? Isnt a HERX from lyme/etc toxins?“

I believe the biofilms are opened up so the spirochetes can be targeted

Yes a herx is from toxins created by dieoff.

So if you bust open the biofilms and the spirochetes are released - and you are taking herbs/abx that kill off the spirochetes - you can herx.
Posted 8/6/2021 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
My Lyme doctor suggested taking these herbs while we wait for the Igenex results and before starting ABX. Does it make sense to start the herbs ahead of time? And would I see any increase in symptoms if using just herbs? Sorry I know Im back and forth here but now Im asking about Herx with herbs and without ABX.

Girlie said...
“ Or just kill biofilms and such? Isnt a HERX from lyme/etc toxins?“

I believe the biofilms are opened up so the spirochetes can be targeted

Yes a herx is from toxins created by dieoff.

So if you bust open the biofilms and the spirochetes are released - and you are taking herbs/abx that kill off the spirochetes - you can herx.

Posted 8/6/2021 9:51 PM (GMT 0)
Same thing for herbals.

You can get massive dieoff with herbals too and can herx.
Posted 8/7/2021 4:20 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Girlie. Ill continue on these herbs.

Girlie said...
Same thing for herbals.

You can get massive dieoff with herbals too and can herx.

Posted 8/8/2021 5:19 PM (GMT 0)

Rider400 said...
Funny you say that I was just watching a video yesterday they were discussing Disulfarim. Gonna do an Igenx test this week. Ive had a few tests already ELISA, Bartonella, WB with PCR stuff and DNA Connexions.
ELISA, Bartonella, PCR stuff and DNA negative but a few bands came up with WB. They were weak in strength I guess but concerning bands too.

Trying to figure out what Igenx panel to do. Im feeling better than I was a few weeks ago. Not sure what to give the credit to. Seemed to rebound right after starting Methylated B Vitamins.

RainyCloud said...
One doctor joked that disulfiram is the perfect drug to determine if you have Lyme, because the herxes are so noticable.

Not sure if it was a joke or a semi-joke though, might be worth looking into with your doctor.

Have you had an iGenex test?

What do u mean by "Seemed to rebound right after starting Methylated B Vitamins"? Pls clarify. I must just started taking methylated b vit because of the MTHFR gene defect.
Posted 8/8/2021 5:24 PM (GMT 0)

Predestined1 said...
Greetings Everyone, I am new and not sure if this is the right place to ask about this or not. If this is not the right place please direct me to the right place for this question and apologies in advance. After 8 Doctors Dermatologist included I have not been diagnosed with anything. Based on the type of skin out breaks and itching it appears to candida , or lyme some type of something of the sorts. With Hashimoto's (one thyroid) lots of issues occur. I recently started taking Japanese Knotweed and Morinda and today my heart pounded/ race with slight twinge like pains. My question is has anyone else experience such while taking Japanese knotweed, or morinda? Thank you so very much for your patience.


Took Japanese knotweed 1 year ago and never herded that I noticed. Started it again a few weeks ago and do seem to feel a little anxiety or fast heart beat which is new for me and maybe a herx. I took 2 drops before bed and had lucid dreams so I take it during the day now. For me I noticed a heavy fatigue right after taking the knotweed to where i just want to knock out and sleep bt with a fast heartbeat. Then the fatigue goes away as soon as it came . Is thos a herx I'm wondering and also wondering how can something u weren't sensitive to before become sensitive to now?
Posted 8/8/2021 6:04 PM (GMT 0)
First off Im not sure what symptoms are due to what. I had a rough couple weeks and (in this order) I took 8 days of Doxy, found out about the MTHFR thing so started B methyl vitamins and then stopped Doxy because I immediatley started feeling better, for instance my leg weakness disappeared almost immediatley. So then thought that ABX could be making my issue worse if it were indeed a "severe" B vitamin deficiency due to the Bactrim I took and/or the MTHFR thing. Fyi Bactrim is listed as one thing (among others) people with MTHFR should not be taking.

Here is my initial write up...

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4253575

MedicalNerd said...

Rider400 said...
Funny you say that I was just watching a video yesterday they were discussing Disulfarim. Gonna do an Igenx test this week. Ive had a few tests already ELISA, Bartonella, WB with PCR stuff and DNA Connexions.
ELISA, Bartonella, PCR stuff and DNA negative but a few bands came up with WB. They were weak in strength I guess but concerning bands too.

Trying to figure out what Igenx panel to do. Im feeling better than I was a few weeks ago. Not sure what to give the credit to. Seemed to rebound right after starting Methylated B Vitamins.

RainyCloud said...
One doctor joked that disulfiram is the perfect drug to determine if you have Lyme, because the herxes are so noticable.

Not sure if it was a joke or a semi-joke though, might be worth looking into with your doctor.

Have you had an iGenex test?

What do u mean by "Seemed to rebound right after starting Methylated B Vitamins"? Pls clarify. I must just started taking methylated b vit because of the MTHFR gene defect.

Posted 8/8/2021 6:06 PM (GMT 0)
Im slowly upping my dose of Banderol and Samento. Like 2 drops more per day. Only new symptom Ive noticed is I feel a little air hunger. Not sure ***.

MedicalNerd said...

Predestined1 said...
Greetings Everyone, I am new and not sure if this is the right place to ask about this or not. If this is not the right place please direct me to the right place for this question and apologies in advance. After 8 Doctors Dermatologist included I have not been diagnosed with anything. Based on the type of skin out breaks and itching it appears to candida , or lyme some type of something of the sorts. With Hashimoto's (one thyroid) lots of issues occur. I recently started taking Japanese Knotweed and Morinda and today my heart pounded/ race with slight twinge like pains. My question is has anyone else experience such while taking Japanese knotweed, or morinda? Thank you so very much for your patience.


Took Japanese knotweed 1 year ago and never herded that I noticed. Started it again a few weeks ago and do seem to feel a little anxiety or fast heart beat which is new for me and maybe a herx. I took 2 drops before bed and had lucid dreams so I take it during the day now. For me I noticed a heavy fatigue right after taking the knotweed to where i just want to knock out and sleep bt with a fast heartbeat. Then the fatigue goes away as soon as it came . Is thos a herx I'm wondering and also wondering how can something u weren't sensitive to before become sensitive to now?

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