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RAST IgE Food Sensitivities Testing

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Posted 8/13/2021 12:59 PM (GMT 0)
My 10yo just had a RAST IgE panel run by an LLMD we recently saw for the first time. I was curious if perhaps she had absorption issues because she's very small for her age. The reference range on this test was 0 (no antibodies) to 4 (likely to react).

The immediate reactions panel (over a hundred foods tested, covered by insurance) had a few 1s and a couple of 2s. The delayed reactions panel (up to three days) cost $15 per food, so we only tested for five of them to begin with: corn, soy, wheat, peanuts, and rice. She scored a 3 (out of 4) on soy, wheat, and peanuts, and a 2 for corn.

So I've read a little about these tests. Plenty of people have 3s or higher without any noticeable reaction to the food, and others have severe allergic reactions with a 0 or 1. So I know they're not predictive, but it freaks me out that she has so many fairly high scores. She has absolutely zero digestive symptoms, ever, but it seems troubling that she has all these antibodies being produced. She has a very mild skin situation (patches that resemble discoid cutaneous lupus, never itch or anything) that worsens when she eats gluten, so she's been gluten-free for a few years (with probably one cheat per month).

What does this say to everyone? Leaky gut? She had a horrible bout of E. coli when she was 4, but otherwise has not had any stomach bugs or food poisoning. Why would someone have lots of sensitivities on a RAST but few (or no) symptoms?
Posted 8/13/2021 1:10 PM (GMT 0)
I dont think an IgE response would do this. IgE is rapid onset (1-2hrs), and a pretty well defined response (hives, itching, etc). Was the delayed food reactions panel IgG?

I mentioned in the other post how it could be Celiacs, but she could also have a non-celiacs gluten sensitivity, which tends to be a delayed IgG response. This is a real thing and often doesnt produce digestive symptoms. If you have non-celiacs gluten you likely have casein sensitivity too.

I would recommend reading the chapter on gluten sensitivity in this book, it's information I hadnt really seen anywhere else:

https://www.amazon.com/isnt-brain-working-revolutionary-understanding/dp/0985690437

Basically talks about the severity of non-celiacs gluten, the underappreciation, how to test for it (there are 20+ different IgG antibodies to test for). If you have non-celiacs gluten, you likely have casein sensitivity, since the proteins are so similar. In addition, he provides a list of over-lapping sensitivies that tend to go w/ non-celiacs gluten, due to similarity in proteins. Corn and rice are two of these. Cyrex labs offers this panel.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 8/13/2021 7:14:21 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/13/2021 1:19 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, you're right - the delayed reactions testing was IgG.
Posted 8/13/2021 3:44 PM (GMT 0)
That’s another interesting food test.I only had the leap MRT which is Cytokine release not antibodies.

Dcd - does the author of the gluten sensitivity book have a website by chance,? I prefer glancing at facts versus reading whole dragged out books I’m just not a reader.

In my experience with gluten sensitivity eliminating it helped my thyroid and the thyroid nodule dissolved in six months after having it for 10 years. I would get more gas than normal upon gluten consumption and dairy consumption.

I am once again able to eat dairy yogurt and cheese Without abnormal gas now. So it’s my guess my leaky gut slowly healed.

Leap MRT never revealed any rice issues so I ate rice this whole time.
Posted 8/13/2021 6:08 PM (GMT 0)
I will ask for testing for celiac and non-celiac gluten sensitivity. I'm curious if eating one wheat flour burrito per month genuinely could make a child simply not grow, even with celiac. (She has never eaten dairy, so even if we tested for casein antibodies, there would be none.) She had 0/4 sensitivity to rice and 2/4 to corn on the delayed reaction IgG testing.

Astroman - sounds like you feel like healing leaky gut assuaged your sensitivities. I'm very curious to hear about others with this experience.

It'll be pretty awful for her to go through life unable to eat soy, corn, wheat, peanuts, and who knows what else. (Only did the delayed reaction testing for five foods so far!) Seems like a lot of things to be making antibodies to for someone with no digestive symptoms.

I have heard often that multiple food sensitivities are most likely to indicate leaky gut and often resolve when the gut heals. I hope someone can weigh in for me about how accurate that statement is!
Posted 8/13/2021 6:13 PM (GMT 0)
Astro, I follow him on Instagram. He's pretty popular in the autoimmune/chronic illness world now, but i dont feel like i get useful info from his IG account. I thought the book was pretty good, def cuts at the onion a little differently than most.

Saraeli, I'm hoping the same thing! Mary R has told me that if/when I heal my leaky gut my gluten/casein sensitivity may/should go away. Seems to be the case for others as well.

If its Celiacs, 1 wheat flower tortilla is more than enough to do it. All it takes is a trace amount, its not dose dependent, you have to completely rid your diet w/ of gluten w celiacs. It def should be ruled out.

Non-celiacs gluten sensitivity, however, from what I've read and heard speculated, is that it tends to be proportional to the amount ingested. So you can get away with small amounts. This is my understanding at least, think its correct.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 8/13/2021 12:17:35 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/13/2021 6:37 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for helping me explore these findings, everyone. Really appreciate it.
Posted 8/13/2021 6:58 PM (GMT 0)
I did have a doctor say to me (not the one who ordered my LEAP test) that if a lot of foods show up on the test its probably indicative of leaky gut. Which seems to be what dcd2103 mentioned as well.
Posted 8/13/2021 7:18 PM (GMT 0)
In the thyroid world / alternative healing methods for it , gluten is commonly found to be a specific problem for the thyroid gland. So even without leaky gut it may still cause thyroid problems with some people which is why I have not re-introduced gluten to my diet.

I wish leap MRT test offered just individual tests in the form of a retest because I would like to retest the five things that were found to aggravate my immune system. I’m guessing there’ still a small enough company that I could just call them and ask them about this, I sure won’t be the first person who wondered about this.

As far as the amounts of gluten before I went 100% gluten-free I was probably 85 to 95% gluten-free for a good year and a half, and it did nothing positive for my thyroid levels or thyroid nodule.

My Endo who was leaning a little more towards alternative theories as he got older and before he retired also mentioned that his patients only seen positive thyroid health improvements after being 100% gluten-free versus 80 to 90% gluten-free. When you hear this from someone who used to be a strict endocrinologist you know there’s something to it.
Posted 8/13/2021 7:42 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
In the thyroid world / alternative healing methods for it , gluten is commonly found to be a specific problem for the thyroid gland. So even without leaky gut it may still cause thyroid problems with some people which is why I have not re-introduced gluten to my diet.

I wish leap MRT test offered just individual tests in the form of a retest because I would like to retest the five things that were found to aggravate my immune system. I’m guessing there’ still a small enough company that I could just call them and ask them about this, I sure won’t be the first person who wondered about this.

As far as the amounts of gluten before I went 100% gluten-free I was probably 85 to 95% gluten-free for a good year and a half, and it did nothing positive for my thyroid levels or thyroid nodule.

My Endo who was leaning a little more towards alternative theories as he got older and before he retired also mentioned that his patients only seen positive thyroid health improvements after being 100% gluten-free versus 80 to 90% gluten-free. When you hear this from someone who used to be a strict endocrinologist you know there’s something to it.

Interesting anecdote Astro, good to know, thanks for sharing! Maybe that proportionality theory isn’t right
Posted 8/14/2021 8:07 AM (GMT 0)
Here is something to think about Astro. I was in a similar situation with eating meat when I got Lyme/MSIDS. It caused me all kinds of issues. I can now eat meat although I do have a mild IgG reaction to chicken and lamb. Here is what I believe.

Everyone has leaky gut, that is how we absorb nutrients. Those of us that have been diagnosed with "Leaky Gut" have an inability of our immune system to completely regulate/stop unwanted items from moving into the bloodstream from the tight junctions in the intestines. We are basically overwhelmed. This is a supply/demand issue. We don't have enough immunoglobulins and proteins to get the job done adequately. Healing could simply be avoiding the foods that consistently get past our immune response, altering the GI composition or foods ingested so that the tight junctions don't open as large, and/or removing the pathogen that produces substances that alter our tight junctions' permeability.

I feel like you and I may have fixed these to some extent.
Posted 8/14/2021 3:05 PM (GMT 0)
Georgia and Astro and anyone else - I'd love to hear more guidance about how you addressed the undesirable levels of permeability. I know everyone's situation will be different, but it's helpful to hear the specifics of what helped you.
Posted 8/14/2021 3:22 PM (GMT 0)

saraeli said...
My 10yo just had a RAST IgE panel run by an LLMD we recently saw for the first time. I was curious if perhaps she had absorption issues because she's very small for her age. The reference range on this test was 0 (no antibodies) to 4 (likely to react).

The immediate reactions panel (over a hundred foods tested, covered by insurance) had a few 1s and a couple of 2s. The delayed reactions panel (up to three days) cost $15 per food, so we only tested for five of them to begin with: corn, soy, wheat, peanuts, and rice. She scored a 3 (out of 4) on soy, wheat, and peanuts, and a 2 for corn.

So I've read a little about these tests. Plenty of people have 3s or higher without any noticeable reaction to the food, and others have severe allergic reactions with a 0 or 1. So I know they're not predictive, but it freaks me out that she has so many fairly high scores. She has absolutely zero digestive symptoms, ever, but it seems troubling that she has all these antibodies being produced. She has a very mild skin situation (patches that resemble discoid cutaneous lupus, never itch or anything) that worsens when she eats gluten, so she's been gluten-free for a few years (with probably one cheat per month).

What does this say to everyone? Leaky gut? She had a horrible bout of E. coli when she was 4, but otherwise has not had any stomach bugs or food poisoning. Why would someone have lots of sensitivities on a RAST but few (or no) symptoms?

I see a regular allergy doc here in CT who's quite good. Insurance covers as well. Wr just tested for fruits and veggies nuts and seafood. Some of my allergies are elevated from over the past years and I'm like how is that possible if I dont touchbany of those foods , plus immunoglobulin E levels are off the chart high. I was told parasites can cause this and sometimes lyme and or mold. Has your child had parasite testing which is unreliable in my opinion? I found out schistosoma can cause this as well ( causes false positive antibodies, cross-reactivity, and high IMG E. In my case inactuakky have intercystial cystitis and massive allergies with no explanation . I have some bloating, nausea, constipation at times bt no diarrhea. Food allergies can have a lot of false positives because the body is producing antibodies to something else in defense which can definitely be parasitic . Does she have lyme or co infections, mold?? If shes not allergic one way to be sure is the walnut, clove, wormwood tincture although allergy wise I'd be careful. My allergy doc said I can actually bring in the tincture and have myself tested with it to see if I'm allergic, and shes doing this for me which is awesome. If u would like the allergy docs info just shoot an email. I also had 4 different tests/antibodies to peanuts, hazelnut, and something else. 3 antibodies were neg while 1 antibody associated with the positive meaning showed it would be a less severe localized mouth allergy . Sorry to ramble on, bt I like to explain the whole connection between parasites and false positive allergies lol! It's been a journey for me and still going.
Posted 9/17/2021 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
Resurrecting my own thread with an update:

We saw the functional medicine doctor (also an LLMD) this week about my kiddo. On the RAST (IgE) test for immediate food reactions, she reacted to 17 things, including most of her protein sources (beans, nuts, and seeds) and some staples of her diet (garlic, avocado, peaches, grapes). On a scale of 0 to 4, the reactions were mostly in the 1 range with a few in the 2 range. Her doctor said we needed to eliminate all of these foods for at least six weeks, and then add them back in one at a time to see which she reacts to. As far as we can tell, she doesn't react to any foods, but I suppose eliminating them for a while will make any reactions she has seem more noticeable? Here are my questions for food allergy enthusiasts:

- Does it make sense to overhaul the diet of a kid with health anxiety even if she doesn't have any symptoms?
- If she has these IgE responses but no symptoms, could they still be causing inflammation and gut damage? Should we cut them out permanently, even if she has no symptoms, to avoid damage?
- Has anyone had immunotherapy help with this sort of food allergy issue?
- Can anything cause multiple food allergies, like some sort of mast cell condition? (I know MCAS reactions are not allergies, but something else with the mast cell milieu?) Could a person test positive to specific foods when the inflammation is from something else?
- Are IgE reactions linked to excessive gut permeability or is that more true for IgG reactions?
- Is it common to be allergic to so many different kinds of proteins?
- If a random person had a RAST done, how many low-level allergies would they have? Do we all have a bunch asymptomatically and just don't realize it?
- How often do low-level reactions like this escalate?

This doctor is not interested in testing her for tick-borne diseases, but does think there could be chronic viral activity going on because of some low (but existent) titers for HV6 and EBV, which I have as well (and basically everyone else has?). I am not impressed with this provider but she has a great background. I've really been striking out with LLMDs lately. The last three I've met with have been duds.

Anyway, thanks for any help you can offer! I feel like it's appropriate to post about my child and partner on here because their issues very likely could be from undiagnosed Lyme (contracted from me or from just being outdoorsy in New England) and we approach them accordingly.
Posted 9/19/2021 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
All great questions. Hoping you get some experienced answers.

Since I only did leap MRT I dont have any answers for your immunoglobulin reaction questions. It would be interesting to compare the two.

1 on a scale of 1 to 4 is pretty low though.

MRT is like a stoplight (the three colors AND bar lengths of each one), so its still a scale just no numbers. I did cut back on my low ones for a month or two, not just the red ones (about 4 years going on those).

I do know internal inflammation can happen without directly feeling it. But there may be an indirect feeling. Example: Like my "glutenized" thyroid. No thyroid pain , but thyroid symptoms...(whole body) yes it was there for years, in addition to lyme / co's.

Maybe the way you present this to kiddo can make a difference in acceptance should you decide to go for it. You can change back any time, and make the first failure "practice".
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