best anti-cytokine herbs?

This psoriatic arthritis is going nuts. I've always said a bad flare of neuropathy is the most painful thing you can ever imagine, but this is a close second. It seems to be going after my SI joint and pretty much every tendon and muscle in my body at the same time. It is the most insidious pain ever, my wife tries to massage me but it just makes it worse. I'm delirious w/ pain, spent christmas by myself on the couch while my family celebrated. Told my wife to go and be with her family. And it does NOT respond to diet like the neuropathy, as far as I can tell.

I'm very afraid of going on a biologic, do not want to do that. I'd like to experiment w/ some anti-cytokine herbs first. It literally feels like a cytokine storm across my muscles and tendons.

I seem to flare from everything I take, however. I tried to tart cherry extract and that's when the SI joint pain exploded. Have also been taking cold showers and I'm not sure if that actually makes it worse. It's so freaking sensitive, i havent really read about anyone w PsA being this sensitive.

There has to be an herb that does not flare me but calms me.

Anyone have any suggestions for ways to calm the cytokine flare w/ herbs that are not immunostimulating and anti-inflammatory? Was thinkin chinese skullcap and resveratrol as two good places to start.

Plan to ask my Dr for a cytokine panel to at least look at which ones may be active, although i'm not sure how useful that is

hey Dcd in the other thread where we discussed neutrophils

knotweed / resveratrol is on the list - but given your sensitivities - a pure resveratrol preparation might be the way to go - as we know the herb itself has some antimicrobial properties that might potentially induce a flare - from memory there are some absorption issues due to the size of the molecule - so that might be worth investigating - or maybe someone makes a liposomal form

curcumin has some similar properties - but is normally very well tolerated - so that could be worth a go - again if defo has some well documented absorption issues - and is one of the herbs/supplements i think is a total waste of time unless some absorbable form is used - the form "theracumin" seems to have a good reputation - i think i would try this in preference to the resveratrol - due to its normally well tolerated nature

cordyceps seems to be a good candidate also - but here i think i would use an extract or a tincture - as i think the dose might need to be significant to make an impact and not sure how you would do with all that fibre ( i take 3ml 4x a day of 1:5 tincture and think it helps me a little ) again is more like a food - and very well tolerated by most

skullcap is an option also based on its constituents - but it does give me mild herx like symptoms when i first start taking it at around 2-4ml 4x - so just be aware it may cause a flare

i had no herx i could detect from kudzu root at 1-3ml 4x - but not sure if its specific for what you are going though - on the other hand if its tolerated - its good for CNS inflammation - so would not hurt to have it in the system if it causes no flares -

quercetin is another option - quite broad anti-inflammatory - and mast cell degranulation inhibitor - which sounds helpful - like some of the above - check the bioavailability - i have only used it in conjunction with EGCG/ green tea extract - but one of them upset my stomach ( i suspect the EGCG but never followed up with trailing them separately )

sulforaphane seems to be another relative newcomer - from broccoli - a lot of science papers on it now - v powerful anti-inflammatory - and seems v well tolerated - favoured by a lot of functional docs - has to be a true absorbable form though ( i think many of these super anti-oxidants are just relatively large molecules ) - tends to be expensive in suitable doses - BrocElite is the only one i know of the functional guys give the rubber stamp


herbs tend to work best in combinations - several together each doing a little bit rather than large doses of any one thing - but i recognise finding out which ones you can tolerate will likely be a challenge

sounds like the only way will be some form of trial and error - do you have any way of testing any of these things at low doses so that you can judge if they are going to flare you - without a full on flare lasting weeks or more?

there are no shortage of options - i think if it were me i would probably try to make a table or excel sheet that added up what i thought were % chance of each helping significantly - vs the chances of adverse reactions - based on what i could find on each - and prioritise the list that way to prioritise the trials to hopefully hit on the ones that help first - without having too many flares.

let me know if i can help in any way - or if you would like to discuss

Post Edited (Garzie) : 12/27/2021 5:27:58 AM (GMT-7)

Hi dcd,

Since you already got great answers, I'll try to keep this short. Boswellia helped me a lot with cytokines and so did Quercetin.
Those 2 really seem to lower it for me, I take them together, although I currently can't take Boswellia since I ran out.

I agree with Garzie about trying to stay with a pure formulation, to limit the other compounds.
So sorry to hear about how you've been feeling.

Things that didn't work for me personally were Curcumin and Glutathione. But I've read that they work for other people sometimes.

My partner has psoriatic arthritis and manages it with diet, chiefly. The Dr. Brooke Goldner book Goodbye Lupus outlines her plan for managing autoimmune illness dietarily (her book Goodbye Autoimmune is basically a long ad for the plan outlined in Goodbye Lupus). It's very different from how you have been eating - plant-based, lots of of smoothies packed with raw vegetables, chia seeds, flax seeds, etc. I think you're already doing other aspects of it, such as no sugar, no processed foods, and low processed oils.

My partner also finds daily yoga practice, somatic therapy, craniosacral therapy, and mind-body medicine (such as the Curable app) very helpful. His mental state impacts his pain levels, so a full-spectrum light for an hour per day this time of year is helpful, as is getting outside as much as possible.

Cannabis is the only herb that has affected his pain specifically, although herbs and supplements that modulate immune response and mental health have been helpful for him, primarily curcumin and 5HTP.

Wishing you the best, Dcd. I know it's an especially hard time of year to be at a low point!

This is very basic and you've most probably got it covered, but whenever I get a nerve condition I up my magnesium, and it's been very good for me. I use glycinate, which is highly absorbable.

Since you are staying away from tablets, I simply looked at what is in what I used to take for cytokines. It is a mix of black tea extract, N-acetyl cysteine, tumeric extract and resveratrol. Just thought it might help to know what was in that mix of Cytoquel by Researched Nutritionals. I'm sure your diet is good.

Reading your post, it really bothers me it is causing you so much pain. Wish there was a way to help you more, but know you have good hopes coming from this way.

Thanks Rainy. I'm very scared of biologics, however. I spent some time just reading through past stories. It seems like they often work for a time, but they will eventually lose efficacy. It might be 1y later, or 3y later, but it seems to happen most of the time. At which point youre forced to try another biologic. And the problem you run into there is that these things often trigger another autoimmune issue. And since once another issue is triggered, and because no biologic will control all of your AI issues, it becomes a vicious cycle of whack-a-mole. Really hoping to be able to avoid this. I haven't noticed that Taltz is any better tolerated than any of the others. The one that people really seem to like the most is Cosentyx.

Ah yes that's definitely a tough spot to be in dcd. I totally agree with that reasoning, it's a cycle you don't want to get stuck in. I wasn't aware of the efficacy thing, I thought they just kept working. That makes things so much harder. I will keep my eye out if I come across other things that might be more of help.

Zyrtec is an antihistamine. It’s frequently used among other things to treat MCAS. Mast cells are involved in aberrant and excessive immune responses. Mast cells release histamine among other substances. That’s why a variety of agents are often required to get runaway inflammatory responses under control.

There are a variety of things going on - mast cells exploding and releasing histamine, prostaglandins, and ???. Cytokines being released. I recall some type or types of “receptors” being involved. I seem to recall women have more of certain types of receptors in various locations in their bodies. That is likely why they are more affected by allergies, MCAS, MCAD, autoimmune illnesses, CIRS, etc.

My point is runaway inflammation involves multiple pathways, so you have to put out fires in as many pathways as you can. Excess histamines are just one of the pathways for fires. Zyrtec will help with that one.