How do we exercise safely?

Walking and light yoga are great starts when you are not able to exercise. When you try to exercise start very, very slowly.
We bought a vibration platform for my girlfriend who isn't able to exercise. You could also do a lymph massage to get the lymph flow going.
Earthing(barefoot outside) also helps with my circulation.

Dr Burrascano talks about this in his 2008 guidelines for lyme treatment - see the sticky post at the top i think its in there somewhere - its well worth a read

basically we each have an ideal window to exercise in - whether sick or elite athletes

the bottom of the window is defined by the minimum amount we need to do to send a signal to our system to repair itself stronger in preparation for the next challenge
the upper end of the window is defined by the level beyond which we do more harm than good

the issue is that with lyme, especially in the beginning the lower end of the window is very close to the top end of the window- and such is a very narrow margin between doing enough and doing too much

also aerobic activities ( activities like jogging or HIT) seem to trigger much worse responses than anaerobic ones like resistance training. Dr Burrascano highlights this also - and it has been my experience too.

he also says its the strength exercises that are the most important for the immune system and essential to get better from lyme - so its good that you are looking into it.

as an example, I can walk 3-4 miles at a fast clip and be fine the next day - but if i try to run for even 100yards i will have ill feelings and extra fatigue the next day. yet I can do resistance exercises - like press-ups and dumbbells as long as i am careful. i had to build up very gradually at first though.

my advice:
-keep up the walking - its a great basic form of exercise and doesn't seem to trigger PEM unless you overdo it
-add in gradually some form of resistance training - weights, isometric etc - whatever works for you
-work out where you tolerance is - do too little to being with and work up to find your limit - then back off a little
-be systematic - keep records and have a target for each workout - make only small increments
-you will likely need longer recovery periods to begin with - so maybe only exercise 1x per 5-7 days
-later aim to gradually bring this down to 2-3 days in-between - and eventually every other day
-it will be slow at first - do not be discouraged - momentum will build
- focus on recovery as much as the actual exercise part
---diet ( your body needs good nutrition when fighting this thing and exercising) to recover well
---sleep - this when your body rebuilds itself best - the better you recover the faster you will progress

i am following the above plan and am now able to workout 45mins every 3rd day and am getting stronger almost every workout - despite also treating at the same time.

Garzie said...
Dr Burrascano talks about this in his 2008 guidelines for lyme treatment - see the sticky post at the top i think its in there somewhere - its well worth a read

basically we each have an ideal window to exercise in - whether sick or elite athletes

the bottom of the window is defined by the minimum amount we need to do to send a signal to our system to repair itself stronger in preparation for the next challenge
the upper end of the window is defined by the level beyond which we do more harm than good

the issue is that with lyme, especially in the beginning the lower end of the window is very close to the top end of the window- and such is a very narrow margin between doing enough and doing too much

also aerobic activities ( activities like jogging or HIT) seem to trigger much worse responses than anaerobic ones like resistance training. Dr Burrascano highlights this also - and it has been my experience too.

he also says its the strength exercises that are the most important for the immune system and essential to get better from lyme - so its good that you are looking into it.

as an example, I can walk 3-4 miles at a fast clip and be fine the next day - but if i try to run for even 100yards i will have ill feelings and extra fatigue the next day. yet I can do resistance exercises - like press-ups and dumbbells as long as i am careful. i had to build up very gradually at first though.

my advice:
-keep up the walking - its a great basic form of exercise and doesn't seem to trigger PEM unless you overdo it
-add in gradually some form of resistance training - weights, isometric etc - whatever works for you
-work out where you tolerance is - do too little to being with and work up to find your limit - then back off a little
-be systematic - keep records and have a target for each workout - make only small increments
-you will likely need longer recovery periods to begin with - so maybe only exercise 1x per 5-7 days
-later aim to gradually bring this down to 2-3 days in-between - and eventually every other day
-it will be slow at first - do not be discouraged - momentum will build
- focus on recovery as much as the actual exercise part
---diet ( your body needs good nutrition when fighting this thing and exercising) to recover well
---sleep - this when your body rebuilds itself best - the better you recover the faster you will progress

i am following the above plan and am now able to workout 45mins every 3rd day and am getting stronger almost every workout - despite also treating at the same time.

This was so helpful, thank you so much! I will definitely read that stickied post.

That’s so great to know that you have been able to progress to that level! That’s so encouraging. That’s a great protocol to try and follow.

So far, I’m only treating with knotweed, Dan shen, cordyceps, and my other supportive supplements. My LLMD is supposed to be starting me on antibiotics next week. I wonder if I will be able to see any progressions after starting.

Canary63 said...

astroman said...
I could write a book on this. Seeing that your new here, you've most likely never read my many numerous posts on this subject for the last eight years here. Unfortunately I never put them all together in a retrievable format.............

.

Canary63 said :

"Thanks for the reply! Yes, I used to be super athletic, I loved running sprints, throwing around weighted bags, kettlebells, etc.
I know how much posture alone can affect my entire system, so I’ve always been aware of keeping muscles active, especially hip flexors.
I do use the lacrosse balls on my back, shoulders, hips, glutes, and bottom of feet. I use the foam roller and myofascial release roller regularly.

I’m definitely concerned about long term damage in my shoulders, hips, and knees. They feel really degraded since I’ve been less active these past few years.

Maintaining a low inflammatory diet has at least kept some at bay, but I agree, supplements really can’t compare to actual movement and blood flow.

"
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Astro says :

Then you know the importance of low back, and hip flexor strength while retaining flexibility. This and neck/head Atlas alignment are key. Many chiros will say one or the other, well experience says you need both. Both play a part in leg length and spinal straightness. All this helps ward off nerve impingement.

1) **Practicing myofascial release:

Doing this slowly till tension melts in problem areas, which might be 10 min long, is crucial. Then can you exercise that muscle group safely and rebuild it. PT does not understand this. You need to find the point of maximum benefit, if you go over that, you will have back-stepped a little. Do you know about topical DMSO use?**

Ive used DMSO alone, but its more effective to topically drive in Pentetrex cream or Solomon's Seal tincture.

The problem with LLMD's, PT's, variety of chiros, is none of them practice it all, and even if they did, they weren't athletic and or didn't have lyme. Even a few pro athlete "body structure professionals" failed to help me in this area, they certainly tried though.

I actually met a athletic PT who had lyme. The only body structure professional Ive met who understood. Comparing our self observations was an eye opener for once, to say the least.

2) **On the subject of sleep:

I couldn't sleep, that was a problem, and is for many. Once I could, the prob became laying there that long, stiff in the AM. So broke sleep into two parts which is what humans did 150 - 1000 years ago. You get sleep with less anti-circulation problems that way.**

I also napped when I needed to. I purposely sought flex time jobs...which meant I could eat lunch by myself in my vehicle with a nap after,... far enough away that coworkers had no idea. This kept a paycheck in my life.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/28/2022 12:59:47 PM (GMT-7)

Post-exertional malaise (PEM) is a symptom that some people here have, but not all. (It's near-universal in CFS/ME folks, so some resources from that community might be helpful.) It's not the same as deconditioning, but obviously the two can overlap and exacerbate each other. For some of us, "exercise" needs to be redefined, sometimes for a long time, or we risk damaging ourselves and setting ourselves back.

I vividly remember how much of a gut punch it was when Lyme sufferers would describe feeling more fatigued after their five-mile run than they used to, while I was bracing myself on the walls just to get to the bathroom. Those people's complaints were valid, obviously, but it made me feel so hopeless! Then I realized that PEM is a symptom not everyone has, and not necessarily a signifier of more severe disease. But it sure is a crappy and limiting symptom!

For a long time, I could not go up a flight of stairs or stand up long enough to shower. At those times, "exercise" for me was very gentle stretching, breathing exercises or brief singing, or having my partner massage me. Once I could negotiate stairs without paying for it for days, I upgraded to restorative yoga (online) and rebounding using a porch swing. Very gradually I became able to go for a walk up the street or dance along to a favorite song. Cardio exercise was vastly more debilitating than other types. If I pushed myself, like walking all the way around the block, then I knew that I would pay for it the next day. During these periods of being very limited, I did my best to make sure circulation of blood and lymph continued through practices like dry brushing, lymphatic massage, rebounding, and craniosacral therapy.

It's great that you keep your joints and connective tissues loose with therapy balls and such. That should help you out, long-term. As you improve in general, resist the temptation to push yourself just because you feel okay immediately after an activity; PEM often doesn't show up until much later, up to 48 hours later, so you won't really know what you can handle until the next day or more. Slow and steady! You will get stronger and regain endurance.

A "Roman chair" / inclined back lumbar extension bench is proven to be the most effective "non-machine" way to strengthen and maintain lower back muscles. This isolates those muscles, no cheating.

I've used these for ten years now and plan on making my own for the days I dont have time to get to the gym.

https://www.titan.fitness/strength/specialty-machines/upper-body/hyper-back-extension-bench-v2/400919.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp400919&sc_intid=400919&utm_content=pla+nonbrand&gclid=eaiaiqobchmivrj5i5bv9qivbmpvbb3-pqsweaqyasabegkqwvd_bwe

Your typical non-isolating gym brand of "back machines", depending on design, can actually do more harm than good- they promote low back muscle "cheating", which is NOT what you want.

An 8-11K (USD $) "Med-X" brand lumbar back machine is one of the very few (only?) exception. I've used these. The few PT and chiro places that have them sometimes will charge $25 USD for single use. Very, very few gyms have this brand. Their old website had a locator, which the new company owners removed (stupid).

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/28/2022 12:57:00 PM (GMT-7)