Interesting discussion of the cause of CFS/ME...

Wow! That’s interesting. Who’s gonna be the guinea pig?

Compared to common testing and treatment modalities for Lyme, this is quite affordable.

I scanned through all the forum pages there. They’re an interesting group.

Lapis_29 said...
specifically what bacteria does he say is usually the suspect?

there is a list in the first page of the forum post linked above

but mainly staph, strep and e-coli
or
in general many gut bacteria and the odd one that typically live in the nose/throat

yep - that's the theory - although i don't think there is yet biopsies or autopsies to support it

actually i posted in that thread about biofilm as i had been discussion with the author, Hip offline - and i thought it was relevant.

Hip has a separate site where he highlights chronic viral infections - particularly by entero-viruses as a potential cause for CFS/ME - and he an i were having a discussion about how bartonella might in fact be a hidden cause of many CFS/ME cases as exposure risk to humans is high and it fits the symptoms picture extremely well. he is a good guy and does a great deal of research and information sharing.

as i understand it several of the members of that forum are trying the Igor Markov protocol on an outpatient basis - so it will be interesting to follow their progress

yep - same guy - has been relentlessly researching his own CFS/ME case for many years

Great post Garzie.

There was a doctor not too long ago on the better health guy podcast. Dr. F.S.

I believe he talked about using this but in a slightly different way, where he would take the patients urine and blood, mix it, ozonate it, and inject it back into the patient. Maybe that’s how the Ukraine doc made it too but I don’t think he said?

That segment really grabbed at my and I put a bookmark in the idea. I’d personally give it a try if I found someone reputable who would do it for a reasonable price. The doc on the pod said the chance for side effects were so low because it’s only things that were already in the body.

To correct my above comment after thoroughly reading the original article..

It sounds like both methods are a different approach to more or less achieve the same result.

The question is.. would any of us inject a mystery substance from the Ukraine? I’ve been wanting to try some radical ideas lol Dr. AC would probably hit me with a stick though lol

Post Edited (loski01) : 2/11/2022 11:27:38 AM (GMT-7)

Major Autohemotherapy is what I was referring to. Anyone looked into that?

Appears to have the same self created vaccine effect. Another one of those pre antibiotic therapies that got pushed out of the market.

Def an interesting new therapy. I am def skeptical of it. Success rate seems too good to be true. Interesting it takes so long, but I guess it makes sense.

There are def many CFS cases that seem disimilar to how and Lyme & Co's present. Like one flue like illness and all of the sudden someone is severely bedridden and non-functional. That seemed to be how it happened to a bunch of people in this documentary ab it that I watched.

Off Topic:

I always love watching Howard Bloom talk ab his battle with CFS. I think he was completely bedridden and sometimes non-verbal for 15 years. Eventually made a full recovery. Brilliant man. Always emphasizes the importance of avoiding even the slightest of stressors and setbacks, which would cause him from being able to sit up in bed to then not being able to move at all for several months. And always emphasized the need to keep trying things and gauge if it helps, because the more things you try the more odds you have of coming out of this hell. This vaccine therapy is definitely something I may try some day way down the road.

Bloom also talks about the psychology of extreme loneliness and the need to maintain human connections somehow - which this forum allows many of us. And he also talks about how these illness strip away family, friends, etc. So many of the dreadful things that come as part of this illness. He had some massive 27 drug regimen that helped bring him back and still uses a lot of oxytocin. The relentlessness he had is so inspiring and I often watch interviews of him when I am in those extremely dark moments, just feeling hopeless, thinking about my prior beautiful life, and how I long I may be stuck in this bed.

I often return to the first paragraph of one of my fav books Shantaram, when I am feeling deep in the trenches as well:

"It took me a long time and most of the world to learn what I know about love and fate and the choices we make, but the heart of it came to me in an instant, while I was chained to a wall and being tortured. I realised, somehow, through the screaming of my mind, that even in that shackled, bloody helplessness, I was still free: free to hate the men who were torturing me, or to forgive them. It doesn’t sound like much, I know. But in the flinch and bite of the chain, when it’s all you’ve got, that freedom is an universe of possibility. And the choice you make between hating and forgiving, can become the story of your life."

I have always loved that paragraph for whatever reason.

Post Edited (JaSon2233) : 2/11/2022 7:28:08 PM (GMT-7)

Urine, kidney bacterial testing makes sense. Conventional medicine testing obviously does a stool test, but bacterial urine, never had that done.

Has anyone here ever had that?

the connection between Lyme / Bart - and CFS like symptoms - and kidney related issues is interesting

my partner had an acute kidney infection in the months between us being bitten multiple times by a swarm of aggressive biting flies ( horse flies ) - which is the event that we believe is the most likely source of our infection - and becoming chronically ill. my partner also lost the use of first one arm and then the other over the course of around 6 weeks - in that time between being bitten - and becoming chronically ill - something we now feel sure was linked to infection - she slowly regained movement and pain reduced. it was more than likely Radiculitis - inflammation of the nerves as they exit the spinal column - CAT scan showed nothing remarkable.

my partner and I both had a fever of unknown origin for 1 day immediately before we became chronically ill.
maybe this fever was a virus that somehow lowered our resistance to Lyme and co
maybe it was simply a fever due to sudden high levels of bart or Lyme in the blood as part of the process of going from quiescent infection under the control of the immune system - to full blown lyme and systemic symptoms. but if so it still remains unclear why this would happen to both of us at the same time.
maybe it was the start of chronic illness by some other aetiology.

Hip, the guy who made the post on phoenix rising, has long theorised that enteroviruses and particularly some form of Coxsakie virus is the cause of his CFS ( he has tested positive for such a virus i believe ) and he now wonders if the viral cause or component can be somehow reconsider with this new theory of CFS - for example does the virus weaken the system and cause the kidney dysbiosis - or does the virus crop up as an opportunistic illness once the kidney dysbiosis has already occurred.

it causes me to wonder - if this CFS theory turns out to be true - then do people with lyme also often have this condition as a co-morbidity - especially those with typical CFS like symptoms - eg Post Exertional Malaise......

still many unanswered questions - including a lack of patient feedback in the West so far - but hopefully the group experimenting on Phoenix Rising will be able to offer some real world experiences in the next 12months - some have posted some limited trial experiences so far already - and i believe there is another thread where Dr Markov is answering questions directly.

loski01 said...
Garzie has anyone in those forums ordered the vaccine to the US? Can that even be done? I spent 15 min browsing around and didn’t see much info outside of the ideas behind it and some controversy around where all these patients in Ukraine are who have been “cured”

i'm reading it just like you Loski

i don't know where the PR members who are trying it are based - i thought in general mostly in the USA.
some are in Europe. but if it can be done in Europe i don't see why not the USA.

It seems the autovaccine term gets used in a few ways.

See https://www.artofmedicure.eu/en/autovaccine-therapy/main-article-autovaccine-therapy

This is with injecting just fresh blood to achieve a similar effect. My earlier post referred to a doc who did this but ozone’d it first. It seems it can be done either ways.

Also anyone looking to find more info on OP article in regards how to order or the people trying it - search some of the key words and there’s some other posts.