HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

How to force a mild herx

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 2/17/2022 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
Hi. First post. I saw a new ILAD LLMD yesterday and she's smart. Way better than the previous doc in the same practice. She's rerunning my Igenix labs and some mycotoxin labs and she wants me to induce a herx so that the critters get active for before the test

I'm not sure how to induce a herx except maybe detoxing alot. I'm going to drink alka seltzer gold and epsom salts. I'm not sure if that's enough. I know I can take one drop of cats claw or japanese knotweed and I'll be in hell, so that's not my first option.

Any ideas? I have severe ME (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) so I'm limited physically with what I can do to achieve this.

Thanks for the input. Be gentle with me. I have a bad brain.
Posted 2/17/2022 8:59 PM (GMT 0)
A herx is a temporary worsening of symptoms when treating an infection. The idea in Lyme, similar to Syphilis, is that when the bacteria is killed by an antimicrobial agent the dead bacteria leaves behind toxins and cytokines. This causes an inflammatory reaction.

Detoxing is supposed to lessen a herx. Detoxing includes things you are describing such as alka seltzer gold and epsom baths which should have the opposite effect that you are looking for. If you are taking one drop of cat's claw or Japanese knotweed and having a worsening of symptoms/inflammation then that is likely the herx reaction you are looking for.
Posted 2/17/2022 9:13 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks. I know I use alka seltzer gold and stuff to stop herxing but a few times it did cause a mild herx in the way of a headache. That's why I thought that.

I know I hate to take a drop of that stuff but it might be the only way. It was brutal. Someone suggested a sauna but I'm housebound so that just is not doable.

Thanks for the info and help. 😃
Posted 2/17/2022 10:29 PM (GMT 0)
There are portable saunas for sale online. I have this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MV4NYDB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Posted 2/17/2022 10:30 PM (GMT 0)
I need this for next week. I'm just gonna take some cats claw. That'll mess me up
Posted 2/18/2022 5:37 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Minkeygirl.

You have actually posted on the forum before.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4282305&g=4282461#m4282461
Posted 2/18/2022 10:48 AM (GMT 0)
just be aware that there is no evidence that i know of that demonstrates that inducing a mild herx - eg from a drop of this tincture or that will increase the accuracy of lab testing for lyme.
( there is some limited evidence of sero conversion after longer courses of antibiotics i believe - but typically that is after several weeks or months )

in any case since this was not done with the validation runs by the same test at the same test house - we don't really know what it does to the accuracy of the test - if anything.

this seems to be another case of a theory held by one LLMD being presented as fact, with very little evidence behind it.
i am sure they only mean to help - but that is no guarantee that it will.

again i would be happy to be proven wrong - as such knowledge, if it exists, would be useful to the wider community.
Posted 2/18/2022 2:49 PM (GMT 0)
I'm curious along the lines of Garzie's post. The only way that a herx would increase the likelihood of a positive test would be if it increased antibody levels, since the IGenex test you mentioned looks for antibodies. I don't think that herxing - reacting to the endotoxins of dead pathogens - increases antibody production. Has anyone read that it does? I'd be interested to learn about this, if there is a relationship there.

Why are you re-running the tests? Were they negative in the past? I don't want to diminish your confidence in your new LLMD, but scientifically I'm not familiar with any basis for the concept of a herx making an antibody test result more likely to be positive.

People do interventions to increase the body's detox pathways in order to increase the amount of mycotoxins in a urine sample. Massage and glutathione are two ways I was told to induce my body to release more of the mycotoxins from its tissues, enabling a urine sample test result that's more reflective of what's in my body. This is done for other types of urine samples as well, such as the DNA ConneXions Lyme test, because it looks for fragments of DNA released by the normal waste pathways (and not antibodies).
Posted 2/18/2022 3:17 PM (GMT 0)
I agree.

A herx will not increase antibodies. If anything, in theory, it could make the test less reliable as it starts the dying off process.

The only thing that might help (theoretically also) is to get some exercise (if you can) a few hours before the test, get your blood with antibodies/WBC's flowing.

"Exercise causes change in antibodies and white blood cells (WBC). WBCs are the body's immune system cells that fight disease. These antibodies or WBCs circulate more rapidly, so they could detect illnesses earlier than they might have before."

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/007165.htm
Posted 2/18/2022 6:18 PM (GMT 0)
I messaged the doc this morning to confirm. She's one of the best LLMD's around here. If she asked me to stand on my head and sing I'd do it. So it's not skin of my nose.

Sorry I cant read all of the replies but the question wasn't whether it would work or not. Just what to do.

I appreciate your suggestions. Most is not doable for me as I am housebound.

Thanks all for the suggestions. I'm going to wait to hear from my doc.
Posted 2/18/2022 6:54 PM (GMT 0)
cats claw and knotweed have minimal killing properties alone and are immune boosters and would increase symptoms and inflammation .
andrographis or oil of oregano would most definitely induce a herx .
fwiw i had a positive absolute test after some herbs and zithromax built up in my system....

a problem with dipping toes in rather than getting mic levels high enough to do real killing is the spirochetes dive deeper into immunocompromised areas when a uncomfortable threat is present. herxing so hard to cause nerve damage is not good either but some where in the middle , pushing limits got me functional again...

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 2/18/2022 12:00:03 PM (GMT-7)

✚ New Topic ✚ Reply