Induced Native Phage Therapy

Wondering if anyone has tried this? I have an appointment with my LLMD this afternoon and plan to ask him about the possibility of trying this new therapy. After 5+ years of antibiotics and continuing symptoms, I'm ready to try just about anything.

phages are a thing - and the phage based test for lyme by Red Labs in Belgium also seems to have some reputable scientific basis - as it was developed by published researchers at the university of Leicester in the UK ( i was a little surprised to find this out recently).

i does however seem to find 50% of healthy people test positive for borrelia - so that's a thought provoking result .....

on the other hand, the "inducing of native phages" via "energised water" that turns out to be just water that has been exposed to an electrical signal appears to be complete bunkum with no actual scientific basis -

it has therefore either

been concocted by a misguided but well intentioned practitioner who honestly cannot see the sense of others who are more knowledgeable and have tried to set him straight
or
someone who knows full well that its false has specifically designed the story to take advantage of desperate, vulnerable people.

i don't know which it is - but neither are a good place to invest your health, time or money

i would of course be happy to be proven wrong

Garzie said...
phages are a thing - and the phage based test for lyme by Red Labs in Belgium also seems to have some reputable scientific basis - as it was developed by published researchers at the university of Leicester in the UK ( i was a little surprised to find this out recently).

i does however seem to find 50% of healthy people test positive for borrelia - so that's a thought provoking result .....

on the other hand, the "inducing of native phages" via "energised water" that turns out to be just water that has been exposed to an electrical signal appears to be complete bunkum with no actual scientific basis -

it has therefore either

been concocted by a misguided but well intentioned practitioner who honestly cannot see the sense of others who are more knowledgeable and have tried to set him straight
or
someone who knows full well that its false has specifically designed the story to take advantage of desperate, vulnerable people.

i don't know which it is - but neither are a good place to invest your health, time or money

i would of course be happy to be proven wrong

Have you checked this out? https://biologixcenter.com/news/induced-native-phage-therapy-for-the-treatment-of-lyme-disease/

There’s several data points in here around efficacy of a small INPT patient sample with phage testing done by the 3rd party labs you mentioned to confirm elimination of infection. Study showed 92% efficacy in their INPT.

There’s also a comparison to how frequencies can influence the epigenetics of EBV https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9276003/, and that the same thing is being done to phages essentially to stop them from limiting the amount of host bacteria they kill. The better health guy had Dr. Jernigan on where he talked about his studies on phages a bit more and his data on how phages essentially reduce all bacteria populations by around 40% in a type of ongoing population control. Any virus that’s too virulent wouldn’t survive long enough to co exist in a host bacteria, just like in us. The frequency influences the epigenetics to get around that limitation. https://youtu.be/HgETsfLO1FM

I understand the need for more studies and more independent testing but to qualify it as quackery or the other is a bit reminiscent of how every frequency based healing method has been dismissed with similar criticism over the last 100 years. Rife, Clark zapper, fsm, multi wave oscillator and so on…

Would be happy to review other opinions out there on this if you happen to find them.

Red Labs backed the clearing of phages in 92% of cases in this study. Red labs does have some credibility as you mentioned. Small sample but the sensitivity at Red Labs appears to be legit for phage testing. Kinda hard to ignore that IMO. Of course we'd both love to see more studies done though. Dr. J also spoke personally about an EBV case he had and the use of phage therapy which correlated with a reversal in positive anti bodies in a really short amount of time. I've interacted with the better health guy on several occasions, he's the one who introduced me to Dr. A.C.'s practice and I've come to really respect his work in our space (maybe some personal bias there haha).

The treatment is supposed to be available in the next 3-6 months for other doctors to try, and for a rather affordable price.

We'll find out either way in the long run it would seem 😉

Hi Running Wild, Absolutely no need for apology. I appreciate your response. Really sorry you've not been feeling great. Yes, lots of antibiotics is about all I have tried. They did away with most symptoms almost immediately. That was 5 years ago. I still have a few issues the worst of which is migrating joint pain.

Since I still test positive for Miyamotoi and have seen 2 rheumatologists who can't find any other issues, I am assuming borrelia to be the cause ... as does LLMD. Will see if this next round of antibiotics has any effect.

I had intolerable head and neck ache and fever initially. They were more troublesome than the joints. Joints are the biggest remaining problem. I never had much in the way of muscle pain but have had significant muscle atrophy. Don't know but assume the atrophy is a result of not being able to move much because of joints.

RW - What have been your worst symptoms?

EBV really does seem to be a scourge. I keep coming across studies linking it all sorts of rheumatic and neurological diseases. There was that huge study on the armed services database recently which showed it is likely involved in the triggering of MS, and another which came out linking it to lupus via a faulty gene that senses viruses. Clearly implicated in chronic fatigue. Read another study on lupus patients and they had 10x the level of b-cells infected w/ EBV than the average person.

Given that this is a virus 95% of us have, and that it lives in b-cells (positive ANA?), and is a known pathogen, and can begin replicating during times of stress...feel like modern medicine should be focused on this. It may very well be the mechanism by which the immune system gets weakened and we begin picking up other infections.

There is no effective treatment that I know of. Imagine an immune system which is genetically flawed to be unable to deal with this thing. That's a chronic illness.

My early antigen numbers came back super high. I asked my neuro and he said pretty much every autoimmune patient he has tests high on the early antigen, but there's nothing he can do about it.

Wrt tick-borne relapsing fever, I'm curious how we know this thing isnt cross-reacting w/ anti-bodies to other pathogens like ebv or borellia. Seems like everyone, including myself, is testing positive out of some specialty lab. I'm skeptical.

cant rely on serological tests for ebv lyme or i would guess TBRF - too much cross reactivity
really need to use other methods - ideally direct methods

even if these direct methods find higher than normal EBV levels - since we pretty much all have ebv replicating inside us at a low level once we have been infected - as you say - any disturbance or weakening of our immune systems - could allow its numbers to start to increase - but whether this is a symptom of something else - or cause is very hard to say - as all chronic bacterial infections suppress the immune system. so it could either be cause or just piggybacking along for the ride.

the military records EBV vs MS study proved association between ebv and MS - but not exactly causation - it was interesting though because of the very large size of the sample - something necessary as they needed to find the much smaller number that did not have ebv or MS at the beginning of the study and developed it later - and this small number still needed to be a large enough number to power the statistics effectively - this made it quite compelling and it pretty much showed that EBV infection was a pre-requisite for getting MS - but nature if rarely so simple - so its likely the real cause is multifactorial.

for example - why did only some people, a tiny percentage with EBV get MS and not others - other factors are clearly involved

then there are also studies showing the presence of borrelia in the brains of MS patients - via direct - not serological methods - so hard to argue - and how does this fit with the EBV hypothesis ?
and others showing other chronic bacterial infections also present - eg chlamydia species

so the picture is complex - but my money is on - at least most of the time- these dormant viruses just being along for the ride - taking advantage once the host is down - and certainly able to add to symptoms patterns and severity - and make diagnosis extra difficult - but seems most likely to me some other factor is needed to weaken the system before they become an issue

is that factor always Lyme - probably not

i think its an AND/OR situation dcd rather than its THIS or its THAT

i.e. the causes that trigger MS are not necessarily mutually exclusive - so there could be many

so for sure they can find a rare genetic mutation that causes different disease states - including MS - but it doesn't demonstrate that its the ONLY thing that can cause that state.

typically we only need to impact a certain pathway in the body and we get a disease state - there can be many ways of triggering the same pathway, infection, toxin, stress, mutation etc

this is actually the same reason why it so hard to fish apart chronic infections, mold, gut issues, auto-immune etc etc - as they are all triggering many of the same pathways and therefore leading to the same symptoms

yep - with you on that

i think horowitz - in his how can i get better book - lists - chronic virus reactivation - as one of the things that can hold his patients back - but he tends to be an everything and the kitchen sink kind of guy

the biggest problem is the reliance on the serological testing methods - which really cant tell all of these cases apart

even PCR seems to struggle- eg with long covid - the virus can be still present in the gut of normal otherwise healthy people - weeks or months later - but DNA tests of blood might be negative

very tricky indeed to even see much more sensitive technologies being available / possible
maybe some of the new testing ideas based on CRISP-R or maybe phages