Trying to find most effective Lyme protocol without atbx

Maybe add in some of Buhner recommended herbs?

Japanese knotweed is in both of his Lyme and Bartonella protocols

Hi MartinK, internal parasites can be a vector for lyme disease, I recently had some success with nitazoxanide (Alinia). Have you ever been treated for parasites? I noticed it moved me forward in my treatment. As a bonus nitazoxanide (Alinia) works on Lyme in itself too and is not an antibiotic.

Also check out the fenbendazole thread here:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4180492

since the pharmaceuticals u mentioned are technically antiparasitics or antiprotozoal or antifungals i guess they're not abx but work similarly with ion transfer or folate deprivation. i'd mention eva sapi's pub med on bee venom ( 3 x more effective than 3 abx combined+ its only substance proven to decimate borrelia biofilm) but sounds like u wanna take more pills ....

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ahh ya its both, pro inflammatory immediately but 4 x more anti inflammatory than corticosteroids in the long haul. now there is a injectable venom made in canada by venex but has to be ordered by a medical professional ....

fwiw i had good results with both alinia and zhangs Allicin/hh2 at full dose but had to titre up...

allicin had a very small particle size to get past bbb. also for biofilms i used chanca piedra with some success.... ooo and cinnamon leaf also had their place . do keep us posted on the mb and your protocol gains ....

hi Martin

from my extensive reading around the subject -
according to the most well known LLMD's it seems Lyme itself is relatively easily knocked back by antibiotics that are active for Lyme. it is hard to fully eradicate though so typically if lyme is the main issue pateints improve on abx relatively easily - but relapse over time when treatment is stopped

other things - particularly patients with bartonella ( which in this population is i think - on top of actual lyme ) have a tendency to be just very hard to get moving in the right direction - tend to have more reactions to treatment - and can be in treatment for many months before seeing any improvement.

this is very much the category i am in - antibiotics only gave small improvements even after months of 3x combos - and things got worse for the 1st 2-3months.

i mention this because while i think Armin is basically a good lab - their tests are all mainstream manufactured by established test manufacturers - and these are simply not the best technology for co-infections - particularly bartonella.

for me Bartonella herbs and MB and immune modulating approaches and biofilm / fibrin disrupters have yielded ongoing gradual improvements.

this lyme / bart combo seems to be the hardest combo to treat in the chronic lyme population.
i think its not so much that treatment X or Y either works or doesn't work for someone.
i think its more a case that it so hard to treat that many treatments have to be combined - each helping just a little to peel away at the layers and mechanisms of infection - to gradually move forward
this seems to be a common feature of all top LLMD's treatments of these combined infections

-MB seems to have activity for bart - esp if combined with other bart active meds

-fluconazole ( all azole antifungals ) seem to have good bart activity acc to Zhangs work

-allicin is supposed to have good activity for bart - but dosing ( content of most available supps seems v dubious indeed )

-disulfiram - has biofilm disrupting properties and may have direct anti-bart effects - no-one knows at this point

i think treating both lyme and bart simultaneously - while trying to modulate the immune system and addressing biofilm in the case of lyme - but especially fibrin in the case of bart - is the best way forward we know of to date

it looks to me like your protocol should do this
keep us posted on how you get on