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Going to gastro Dr for SIBO

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Posted 7/21/2022 7:40 PM (GMT 0)
Appt is Friday - tommorow.

Thru past experience (years) and googling, I believe Ive controlled returning Candida (again) on my own, but SIBO is left. Had both in past. Seem to happen at the same time.

***** I think my permanently under range immunoglobulins help make this happen- but no one connects the dots.***

Conventional Gastro Drs hardly even acknowledge SIBO LOL!

On their website list of gastro issues the clinic takes care of - SIBO is not even on there. BUT they can provide needed RX that i will suggest if they dont know.

[Ive done the naturo path Dr way before- very high cost and knew no more than what Dr Google shows - waste of $. Most of those drs just google anyway, tired of filling their pockets.]

I hope this clinic has both tests, seems some only provide hydro breath test.

This time I will ask about:
1)Xifaxan for hydrogen SIBO
2)Neomycin for methan SIBO

Google (Dr Amy Meyers + others) also says you cant digest fats with it - mentions pale stool/floaters (TMI sorry!) as SIBO effects the the gall bladder tract (inflames / temporarily cuts off bile?). This is why higher ox bile helps me(its obvious now) last gastro Dr was clulesss on that fact.

Dy Amy has some very $ supps for SIBO- tired of these $ supps.

[I think ive only contained this for years with low cabs/sugar/low FODMAP. It SLOWLY comes back after I eat offending foods (pressured social eating: summer BBQ's and winter holidays). Tired of unhealthy, "foodies" trying to stuff me with their food. ....[sarcasm].

any tips?

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/21/2022 3:03:15 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/21/2022 7:56 PM (GMT 0)
SIBO is renowned for being hard to cure
has a very high relapse rate - even after drugs like Rifaximin

the leading researcher in this field is a guy called Dr Mark Pimental

he has recently published that the mechanism is auto-immune in nature an involves damage to the nerves in the gut which disrupts the bodies control of the gut functions - including the peristaltic cleaning action the gut uses between meals to clean itself of unwanted bacteria in the small intestine.

think he is working on therapeutics now but it sounds tricky

for me the following are my best bet at controlling it until i can sort out bart which i feel is the underlying driver
- keto diet - stricter when it acts up
- longer gap between evening meal - and breakfast - less irritation to the system
- zero snacking between meals

many functional docs use prokinetics as a means of helping the body speed up transit from stomach to colon ( not from stomach to anus) and believe this is a missing ingredient for succeeds

i am taking LDN and its a known Prokinetic - i did notice it worsen when i took a break recently - so maybe there is a case for it

seems like more than half of us here have this issue ....
Posted 7/21/2022 8:06 PM (GMT 0)
PS - herbs have been found to work as well as xifaximin if you go down the antimicrobial route
there are some papers on that that used some off the shelf products

also if doing breath test -
-get one that tests both methane and hydrogen

also when i did it last time ( few years ago ) lactulose was the substrate of choice - but later research may have changed that and i think a combo is often used now including fructose perhaps - given high fructose corn syrup is used in everything these days this makes some sense that people will have overgrowths of things inside them that can take advantage of that.

also get one that has multiple time points up to 3-4hrs from start - as it can take that long to reach the colon
Posted 7/21/2022 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
I'm doing two weeks of xifaxan alongside a Biocidin protocol. This time I just bought the Biocidin liquid as opposed to the LSF as I'm targeting the gut. I'm going to dose the biocidin according to Dr. Ross's recommendations on his SIBO page. In addition, I bought the Bio-botanical's GI detox and Proflora. This package is recommended on their website. I'm planning on continuing with the biocidin after two weeks of xifaxan hoping it can help control gut symptoms as I return to treating with Jemsek.

There are two herbal options I've read that are the most promoted for SIBO. Dysbiocide + FC-Cidal from Biotics Research and Candibactin-AR + Candibactin-BR from Metagenics.
Posted 7/21/2022 9:59 PM (GMT 0)
Garzi- I had that other post about my re-occurring gut issue. But I made this new one since i,ve honed in on the issues.

Three things that together prob set this off:

1)Magnessium helps with normal gut regularity. My normal brand was unavailable for three months prior to my SIBO symptoms acting up. Its replacement did not work as well.

2)Possible "glutanized" at a neighbors BBQ

3)**A lot of meat also at that BBQ. Plus I was pretty close to a KETO diet a couple months prior to all this starting up. A lot of meat slows my "regularity", which adds to bacteria build from fermented carbs.**:

The more days in a row I eat a lot of meat, the less I digest it properly and I end up getting.....(TMI....!!) ....fatty light colored , floating, stools - thats what happens if you cant digest animal fats anymore. BUT that can also be from SIBO infecting / cutting off the galbladder tract/tube ect. SO....I dont know what happened first.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Both of you- I will read up on this info and Drs ya'll, posted thanks so far
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Post Edited (astroman) : 7/21/2022 3:08:15 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/22/2022 4:23 AM (GMT 0)
Why don’t you get a fecal transplant? It would probably work.
Posted 7/22/2022 4:46 AM (GMT 0)
I will second what Garzie said about prokinetics and LDN. Also treat any adrenal or thyroid problems as that can also affect gastric motility.
Posted 7/22/2022 6:48 AM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
Why don’t you get a fecal transplant? It would probably work.

(I’m doing a good job resisting a bunch of jokes on that subject right now!)

fecal transplant is more like last resort when nothing else works. Could be something to consider in the future.

Even then if somebody has a low immune system levels like I do I’m not sure how good it would actually last though.

I haven’t googled a whole lot about compromised or deficient immune system and a gut overgrowth connection.It makes sense to me that this would be more likely to happen.

However, the immune system doctors have told me that it’s not always immune levels that are important but the strength of your immune cells and that is something that cannot be measured.

Immune doctors are to some extent impressed that I don’t get colds and respiratory illnesses, many people with this do. Knock on wood, no Covid yet to date. I’ve been careful, but not overly careful.
Posted 7/22/2022 6:52 AM (GMT 0)

Quin said...
I will second what Garzie said about prokinetics and LDN. Also treat any adrenal or thyroid problems as that can also affect gastric motility.

I keep my meds thyroid adjusted well. Adrenals are as good as they’re going to be, I have very low stress in the summer.

I never heard of prokinetics till today. Something to read up on. I guess it’s a term used for several different types of supplements, LDN being one of them.

LDN sounds good but not something I wanna take for a long time. Since I have auto immune and deficient low Immunoglobulins at the same time I’m not so sure what LDN would do. I googled that combination in the past and came up with almost nothing, but that was a few years ago so maybe there’s new info out there by now, I’ll find out.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/22/2022 2:20:18 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/22/2022 8:42 AM (GMT 0)
Atrantil - Three natural ingredients.

https://atrantil.com/how-atrantil-works/?gclid=cj0kcqjw8uowbhdxarisaoxkj2hgudsgnlks_us5oq-ioiv6ljr7lyjnurbbonyuwwsdofi8fvabr7waasjjealw_wcb

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/22/2022 2:20:30 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/22/2022 2:35 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...
Atrantil - Three natural ingredients.

https://atrantil.com/how-atrantil-works/?gclid=cj0kcqjw8uowbhdxarisaoxkj2hgudsgnlks_us5oq-ioiv6ljr7lyjnurbbonyuwwsdofi8fvabr7waasjjealw_wcb

I went through a bottle of Atrantil. Did nothing for me. I have recalcitrant constipation and have to take 5 tsp Natural Calm magnesium every night to be able to have a BM every day. From what I have read, I am guessing I have the methane kind. My poo often smells like a sewage treatment plant, especially after taking anything that targets parasites and other gut microbes.

I also have low immune function - specifically low secretory IgA.

I don’t think having a lowered immune system will prevent FMT from being successful. https://www.physiciansweekly.com/after-fecal-transplantation-for-recurrent-clostridioides-difficile-infection-alteration-in-iga-targeted-microbiota
Posted 7/22/2022 4:51 PM (GMT 0)
I am pretty sure I have it. My GI person said that there is no point in treating it while I was on lyme antibiotics - it will just come back.

I will be interested in hearing what your GI doctor says.
Posted 7/22/2022 5:39 PM (GMT 0)
Ive been starving the SIBO and take a anti- parasite tincture with black walnut hulls in it. The more I do this, the more my sibo turns into "sibolight".

If the clinic sends me home with some home breath test kits this weekend, Ill try to "feed" the sibo the day before.
Posted 7/22/2022 5:43 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
[quote

I also have low immune function - specifically low secretory IgA.

Ah ha. I wonder what % of us do. The lyme community seems to ignore this. Most dont get it tested further.

I made posts on that years ago and was asking a few people here. Mine is not just low, but well under the range in two of them. IgA and I forget which other one.
Posted 7/22/2022 6:24 PM (GMT 0)
I didn’t have any low (out of lab range) immunoglobulins the whole time. This just occurred in the last 2 years and has been disconcerting to me. The last 3 tests, IgA was flagged low.
Posted 7/22/2022 11:41 PM (GMT 0)
Well nothings Instamatic anymore meaning a lot of these places don’t even stock the test in the clinic!

So I did get an order for a breath test kit, I won’t get it till next week sometime. So it’s one kit that apparently covers hydrogen and methane, both. From what I told the doctor in my past experiences she thinks the cause of this is from FODMAP foods. Since that’s what I was gradually increasing in my social eating once the acute episode happened. I didn’t think Avoiding FODMAP foods were that big of a deal but they can trigger SIBO in some people. I know this and was told this before, I did learn that I can tolerate some but I guess I probably went overboard with it.

I might also get some appointments with a dietitian this is part of what this clinic does to teach me a little bit more in depth about FODMAP foods and how to learn my limit of intake with them before an episode repeats. My guess is they have a certain re-introduction process of FODMAP foods to figure out which ones you can deal with with and which ones you can’t.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/22/2022 5:14:14 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/28/2022 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
Really good SIBO article. It gets right to the point and right to the symptoms. It says right there you will not digest fats well with Sibo. Which explains my issues with red meat right now. And floaters lol sorry TMI!

https://www.verywellhealth.com/signs-of-small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-sibo-4125271

————————

Got my test kit hope to do it this weekend since you have the plan for it a day ahead a time as well. Fasting. Certain things need to limit can’t be around. One surprising thing- to make sure you do not breath any secondhand smoke which makes sense I guess.

Post Edited (astroman) : 7/28/2022 11:05:53 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 9/24/2022 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
It blows my mind how slow conventional medicine is.

So in a nutshell I tested negative for Sibo in July, But I got impatient with the slow doctors and started taking my own supplements for it.

They gave me a second test for detecting the level of fat in your stool period from symptoms it was obviously high incontinent and their test revealed that as well.

I originally told them digestive enzymes and ox bile helps with this now months later because of their test they can see why. Again their diagnosis procedures are so slow it’s ridiculous! I’m literally one step ahead of them the whole time.

But the good part of this is now I go to a pancreas specialist in the digestive field.

I’m not aware of any way for them to actually measure your natural pancreatic enzyme levels other than just looking at the symptoms which is floating fatty stools.

There’s only so many things that cause fatty stool. And SIBO is one of them. I’ve never had gallstone pain.

And when this happens it seems to be acute episodes spread apart. Which sounds a lot like bacterial growth overgrowth to me. If it was my actual pancreas I would have this problem continually I would think.
Posted 9/24/2022 5:43 PM (GMT 0)
yep, there are tests for pancreatic function

quite a few of them in fact

tests for enzyme in the blood or for surplus fat or proteins in the stool - and direct stimulation and sampling through a tube into the small intestine

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/12029-pancreas-function-tests

i get acute episodes spread apart also - with a general background level of sibo / gut symptoms - intolerance to carbs etc.

i have no issue at all with a high fat diet or higher than average meat intake ( i only eat red meat - no factory raised chicken or pork ) - and i do not deviate from my ( for me ) optimised diet at all - so its not driven by diet in my case - just flares for other reasons acute respiratory virus being the latest trigger.

my guess is its linked with immune dysfunction / autoimmunity - bart is known to cause a form of bile blockage disorder by inducing a auto-immune condition in the liver and gall bladder, called Primary Sclerosing Cholangitis so, in my case at least - that seems like a prime candidate.

https://www.mdpi.com/2624-5647/2/1/5

a virus that infects the digestive tract and increases inflammation ( most respiratory viruses do this) could well trigger an attack
Posted 9/24/2022 6:02 PM (GMT 0)
The thought of something temporary is not the way this place thinks.

A temporary bile blockage does not seem out of the question with my symptoms, Yet they have not gone down that road yet.

Maybe they will look at this as a possibility months into the future lol.

For that test they had me on a high fat non- meat diet since meat was hard to digest.

I have been eating red meat again in smaller portions after that test. At least in smaller portions I can get away with out using enzymes or bile now. But if I do use enzymes and bile the leftovers in the toiletLook more normal.
Posted 9/24/2022 6:16 PM (GMT 0)

astroman said...


I have been eating red meat again in smaller portions after that test. At least in smaller portions I can get away with out using enzymes or bile now. But if I do use enzymes and bile the leftovers in the toiletLook more normal.

yep - i have noticed that too - i been using HCL + pepsin with most meals for a while now - and noticed that my fatigue and general achiness was better when i did this - so stuck with it

my guess is the better we digest stuff the less antigens are left to cross the leaky gut barrier - get into the system and upset the immune system - functional docs who are into gut health cover this angle
Posted 9/24/2022 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Toward off leaky gut and poor gut brain connection symptoms I , will try to keep on taking L glutamine supplement. And maybe try what minimal most affordable digestive supplements help me out.

I’m not so sure I need the bile anymore , Maybe just pancreatic enzymes .

Low fat absorption high fat floating stools Is he essentially malnutrition, of course they have an acronym for that but I forgot. When I had what seemed like SIBO symptoms I was also extremely tired, this may be why .

When I went down this road before I brought this along with my low immune proteins in attention to the gut doctor. I was wondering about the possible connection. Of course gut doctors and immune doctors don’t talk to each other, Or think of the possible connection.

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/24/2022 11:46:56 AM (GMT-7)

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