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Posted 11/2/2022 9:07 PM (GMT 0)
I finished my rifaxim after about 10-14 days after starting it. This is the only pill that took away my bloating,nausea, gas, fullness. Now Ive been off the rifaximin for 3 days and I know have fullness off of a few bites of food, nausea and bloated a litte. Yesterday I had diareah and only at oatmeal for breakfast with no sugar and steak for dinner so what gives? Maybe I didn't treat sibo with rif long enough? I'm wanting to try allicin because it's used for sibo and yeast but on the other hand am scared because I think I've read allicin is also used to break up biofilms or for bart and lyme protocol?? I don't want to kill sibo but then be hitting bart or disturbing it as I'm not on abx at the moment, any ideas? Thanks
Posted 11/2/2022 10:07 PM (GMT 0)
good input there from Constantine

herbal protocols for SIBO have been demonstrated to be as effective as rifaximin in some published studies - so they are defo worth considering

but these are not single agent herbal treatments - they have several different herbs in them - 6-10 perhaps
there are some off the shelf ones that were used in the trials

allicin is used for bart and is also active for Lyme - but there is some controversy around it as the main brand people use - Allimed / Allimax - has been found to only contain trace amounts of allicin
that aside it seems to be systemic and cause major herx reactions in many people

you may do better with agents that are less systemic - or stay mainly in the gut - where you want them to treat the SIBO

the diet modification and motility side of things are super important for SIBO
the small intestine does its own pulsating /cleaning routine - waves of muscle contractions that force the contents towards the valve at the end by the colon - but only in between meals -

so as above - if food is taken regularly - the gut never goes into this cleaning mode and sibo is hard to shake

one v long gap between food intake in a 24hrs period can defo help

hence intermittent fasting can be of benefit - but if not that - just try to keep your last meal at least 3 hrs from bedtime or more
Posted 11/3/2022 12:06 AM (GMT 0)

Constantine said...
I'd like to offer you my perspective as someone who battled stubborn SIBO all last year 2021. After testing, I did a few months of herbal approaches which included Allicin, retested, that didn't work, then I went on the elemental diet for two and a half weeks that was a disaster for my digestion, retested, still high methane and hydrogen, and then we did rifaxamin plus another antibiotic can't remember which...for 2 weeks and that definitely knocked the SIBO out. Since that time I haven't had any of the bloating and goofy digestion. I didn't know then at the time but I know now that I have several Lyme bacteria and even Bartonella floating around. I do remember having a pretty tough time of unusual symptoms that stirred up while taking Allicin and the other herbals I don't know if this was lyme-related stuff or something else.

So to your question whether or not you should try Allicin I don't know if you are working with a physician but SIBO is notorious for being difficult to get under control and you really need to try several different approaches and just keep hammering it down until something clicks.

I take a motility activator and low dose naltrexone and that helps keep migrating motor complex doing its part to clear the intestines and I also maintain the habit of (only) two meals a day, no snacking, with intermittent fasting and I think these habits combined actually are super clutch for SIBO... you don't want your gut and small intestines full of food all the time let that thing clear out! So consider two meals a day occasional one meal a day throughout the week no snacking keep your motility going and hit it with some herbs and or whatever your practitioner thinks is the next approach and just stay on it. good luck

As for motility I started taking bile salts factors and they did wonders for me. How about probiotics?? I have bifidobacterium that's essential for digestive track as well and S. Boulardii. Regular Garlic gives me burps and gas so I figured to try allicin as I read it's much more softer on the tummy. I surprisingly didn't have ANY die off symptoms from the rifaximin like lots of ppl say they did. Natural herbs hit a little harder in my opinion. I tried only 1 drop of wild crafted organic Turkey oregano oil, and oh man did it hit something hard. Instantly my heart was pounding and I felt brain fogged! And I'm thinking can a herx even happen as soon as you take something ?!
Posted 11/3/2022 12:38 AM (GMT 0)

Garzie said...
good input there from Constantine

herbal protocols for SIBO have been demonstrated to be as effective as rifaximin in some published studies - so they are defo worth considering

but these are not single agent herbal treatments - they have several different herbs in them - 6-10 perhaps
there are some off the shelf ones that were used in the trials

allicin is used for bart and is also active for Lyme - but there is some controversy around it as the main brand people use - Allimed / Allimax - has been found to only contain trace amounts of allicin
that aside it seems to be systemic and cause major herx reactions in many people

you may do better with agents that are less systemic - or stay mainly in the gut - where you want them to treat the SIBO

the diet modification and motility side of things are super important for SIBO
the small intestine does its own pulsating /cleaning routine - waves of muscle contractions that force the contents towards the valve at the end by the colon - but only in between meals -

so as above - if food is taken regularly - the gut never goes into this cleaning mode and sibo is hard to shake

one v long gap between food intake in a 24hrs period can defo help

hence intermittent fasting can be of benefit - but if not that - just try to keep your last meal at least 3 hrs from bedtime or more

[Quote]
allicin is used for bart and is also active for Lyme - but there is some controversy around it as the main brand people use - Allimed / Allimax - has been found to only contain trace amounts of allicin
that aside it seems to be systemic and cause major herx reactions in many people

you may do better with agents that are less systemic - or stay mainly in the gut - where you want them to treat the SIBO

So what herbs beside allicin will stay mainly in the gut?? So allicin is more systemic and doesn't stay only in the gut? The only herbs I came across that are definitely supposed to work were allicin and berberine, anymore that I missed?
Posted 11/3/2022 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
yep - allicin seems to be systemic

i will try and find the studies with the ingredients in the off the shelf blend when i get a minute tomorrow

berberine stays mainly in the gut - is often used as part of a blend

from memory people also use things like
-black walnut
-neem
-grapefruit seed extract

but i don't know how systemic these are
Posted 11/3/2022 2:35 AM (GMT 0)

Garzie said...
yep - allicin seems to be systemic

i will try and find the studies with the ingredients in the off the shelf blend when i get a minute tomorrow

berberine stays mainly in the gut - is often used as part of a blend

from memory people also use things like
-black walnut
-neem
-grapefruit seed extract

but i don't know how systemic these are

My issue is I'm allergic to every fruit and vegetable basically high IGE or IGA whatever so pretty sure I can't try grapefruit seed extract and I'm unfortunately allergic to nuts including walnuts. So walnut is out for my sibo or parasite cleanse sadly. Neem, I'm not sure about although I've heard of some ppl having nasty allergic reactions but not sure again. Allicin may be the only thing left to try. I've tried berberine and goldenseal in the past but can't say I noticed any luck, just tons of burps off it which idk why that it. Wonder if mimosa pudica has some effect. It made me sweat, urinate lots more and also moved my bowels probably a little too much.
Posted 11/3/2022 4:51 AM (GMT 0)
fwiw imo zhang allicin is wasy stronger than others . georgia hunter had some posts theorizing that gram negative overgrowth has a lot to do with the excess lactic acid and ammonia buildup many lyme sufferers have .he went further to say that the breakdown of protien especially meat may favor some species more than others environmentally . heads up tho, mimosa p may he systemic in large doses . have you always been "allergic" to walnut ? some herxes like with oregano can be interpreted as allergic reactions . have you tried drinking silver or mms yet? is there any plasma rife practioners there? also if something worked against gram neg gut pathogens then why wouldn't you want it to work on bartonella and company? are you waiting for something before delving into treatment?
Posted 11/3/2022 1:23 PM (GMT 0)
sounds like you may do better on pharmacological SIBO drugs rather than herbals if you are allergic to all of them

but here is the study on herbal vs rifaximin SIBO treatment

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc4030608/
Posted 11/4/2022 8:54 PM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
fwiw imo zhang allicin is wasy stronger than others . georgia hunter had some posts theorizing that gram negative overgrowth has a lot to do with the excess lactic acid and ammonia buildup many lyme sufferers have .he went further to say that the breakdown of protien especially meat may favor some species more than others environmentally . heads up tho, mimosa p may he systemic in large doses . have you always been "allergic" to walnut ? some herxes like with oregano can be interpreted as allergic reactions . have you tried drinking silver or mms yet? is there any plasma rife practioners there? also if something worked against gram neg gut pathogens then why wouldn't you want it to work on bartonella and company? are you waiting for something before delving into treatment?

Well when you ask if I'm waiting for something, I guess I'm waiting to actually start my abx because the way I think about it is, I don't want to be stuck with no abx at all and start taking allicin to hit bart. I figured I don't want to ramp up symptoms and be stuck with no abx at all if that makes sense. At least if bart symptoms ramp up then I can have abx to fall back on and keep hitting it. Did anyone on hee have to stop abx or allicin due to bad herx? If so were you able to get back on abx and keep going. One time I was in bed for like 2 months with sore muscles and an Epsom bath barely touched the pain? Plus I was taking like 6 activated charcoal at once so I figure hmmm my detox is pretty good right? Nope apparently wasn't enough , and this was only when I had started herbals with no abx. Sida acuta hit me the hardest and I could never go bk on it because I didn't know some of buhners herbs act as stimulants which I cannot tolerate as it is.

Post Edited (MedicalNerd) : 11/4/2022 2:00:14 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/4/2022 9:02 PM (GMT 0)
Update all, so my gastro gave me a new prescription for rifaximin and even refills! I'm kind of thrilled because I didn't think he'd be on board here like like some docs. Only thing is I've been waiting days now for authorization to push through as the pharmacy is saying my insurance doesn't cover it .well seen this one coming already. Is anyone on here sensitive to bernerine or who has mcas and allergies to many things?
Posted 11/4/2022 11:09 PM (GMT 0)

MedicalNerd said...
Update all, so my gastro gave me a new prescription for rifaximin and even refills! I'm kind of thrilled because I didn't think he'd be on board here like like some docs. Only thing is I've been waiting days now for authorization to push through as the pharmacy is saying my insurance doesn't cover it .well seen this one coming already. Is anyone on here sensitive to bernerine or who has mcas and allergies to many things?

i seem to remember rifaximin is v expensive like $1500usd for a course - so that may be why the insurance co are dragging their heels - hope it comes through for you
Posted 11/5/2022 12:19 AM (GMT 0)

bluelyme said...
fwiw imo zhang allicin is wasy stronger than others . georgia hunter had some posts theorizing that gram negative overgrowth has a lot to do with the excess lactic acid and ammonia buildup many lyme sufferers have .he went further to say that the breakdown of protien especially meat may favor some species more than others environmentally . heads up tho, mimosa p may he systemic in large doses . have you always been "allergic" to walnut ? some herxes like with oregano can be interpreted as allergic reactions . have you tried drinking silver or mms yet? is there any plasma rife practioners there? also if something worked against gram neg gut pathogens then why wouldn't you want it to work on bartonella and company? are you waiting for something before delving into treatment?

I started becoming allergic to almost all those foods at around 5 yrs old which was shortly after my 1st tick bite oddly. Can it be a herx from the oregano oil within only a few seconds like that?? Wow! It was literally no more than 10 sec after my 1st drop of oregano oil that I felt screwed up and my heart rate went up to like 180 . My chest felt so tight or numb like I couldn't breath, although an allergic reaction wouldn't explain the drunk or brain fog feeling. I just didn't want to sound dumb and say I had a possible herx in 10 secs not.evwn knowing it that's possible. I haven't tried silver yet.
Posted 11/5/2022 2:55 AM (GMT 0)
That was my experience also. My first symptoms of Lyme after the tick bite was I started getting allergic to everything, food, pollen, etc. At the time, I didn't connect it to the tick bite, and didn't know what MCAS was.
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