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Therapeutic Lyme Vaccine?

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Posted 1/19/2023 3:28 PM (GMT 0)
Think the vaccine currently being tested (manufactured by Pfizer) will be therapeutic as well? As in offer a “cure” to those already infected and not just a preventative vaccine? Not sure I’ve seen anything on this.

Post Edited (Fronton) : 1/19/2023 7:41:00 AM (GMT-8)

Posted 1/19/2023 4:17 PM (GMT 0)
How would that work?

Would it be, in theory, able to get the immune system to recognize a persistent infection? I'm instantly skeptical because it seems like chronic Lyme, PTLDS, Lyme borreliosis, MSIDS, whatever people want to label it, is more complex than just destroying infection. I'd be ecstatic if I was wrong. I'd imagine any vaccine would be marketed as a preventative.
Posted 1/19/2023 4:36 PM (GMT 0)
Problem is chronic Lyme disease is often much more than just “Lyme”. Also there’s so many variants of borrelia.

Another angle would be to look at what SOT therapy is doing for example. I believe they genotype the borrelia and give the sot for variety most present. Some people have to do another to hit the variants. Haven’t even started talking about co infections yet.. that’s just for borrelia. Last Sot poll I saw had about 40% positive results. So maybe one could have a similar response to a Lyme vaccine IF it’s a very similar genetic variant? That’s best case scenario IMO

PSA - I’m not advocating for SOT therapy, I had once considered and from my observation there’s way too much cost / risk of negative response involved. I do think it may have promise in the future. Simply found it useful to compare for this discussion.
Posted 1/19/2023 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
from what i can gather its intended to be administered as pre-exposure protection for tick bite transmitted Lyme disease.

it states that the antigen its targeting is Outer Surface Protein A - and that the vaccine covers the six prevalent versions of OsP-A found in the Borrelia Burgdorferi sensu lato in USA and Europe ( sensu lato - means "in the broad sense" - ie the broader species that cause lyme disease) ( that would mean they believe it covers Borrelia Garinii or Alfezii) .

from memory this outer surface protein is expressed by the borrelia bacteria when living inside the tick - but the organism starts to cycle the outer surface proteins to others in its repertoire once inside its mammalian hosts and so may not express OSP-A once in chronically infected humans ( would have to recheck that)

so this would mean that the vaccine is expected to provide broad coverage for most species of borrelia that cause lyme disease - but mainly in terms of protection from getting a lasting infection - and might not be expected to do much for those already infected.

i see phase 3 trials as being a bit trickily given that they cannot deliberately infect humans who have been vaccinated to see what will happen - s presumably they will just have to have a large cohort and a long duration so they can compare disease outcomes from vaccinated persons in the cohort who become infected vs those that are not vaccinated. but given the time to symptoms can be months if not years - and can be highly variable in presentation - this could take some untangling

interesting though -

more info here
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/valneva-and-pfizer-report-further-positive-phase-2-data
Posted 1/19/2023 8:34 PM (GMT 0)
In the late 90's a Lyme vaccination called LYMErix was introduced that targeted ospA.

Many people receiving the vaccine went on to develop "arthritis" like symptoms.

It was beleived that ospA is the cause of Lyme arthritis.

The vaccines would not benefit those currently infected with Lyme disease.

I have been following the new vaccine and would not take it for the above reason.
Posted 1/19/2023 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
But what about the other two “B’s”
Bartonella and Babesia?

Bart seems to be the worst one in my case
Posted 1/19/2023 11:18 PM (GMT 0)
yep - one is a completely unrelated bacteria - an the other a single celled protozoa - so no ay one vaccine will take care of all of them - even if effective - it will only be a part of the puzzle

given what a famous failure the original Lyme vaccine was i would be surprised if they have gone ahead and developed another based on the same protein - without understanding what happened there and accounting for it....but i guess anything is possible

surely someone has put that question to Pfizer though...
Posted 1/19/2023 11:20 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah, Lyme is not often by itself, this is true, but just looking at the Borrelia and the possible interaction with a vaccine in a long-standing infection was the root of my question. Mainly just to ponder, as I know noone at this point can really answer it.
Other examples of therapeutic vaccines include: Rabies, Hep B and C, HIV, TB, Malaria, and the list goes on.

How fantastic would it be if the vaccine could introduce anti-borrelia and immune properties in a currently infected person....
Posted 1/20/2023 2:14 AM (GMT 0)
Garzie - unbelievably they chose the same target - ospA. "They" discredited the research showing ospA was the actual arthritis vector clearing the way for the new vaccine using ospA. The reason ospA and ospB are vaccine targets is that is the component that Lyme disease testing looks for, another target may invalidate testing (even as inaccurate as it is).
Posted 1/20/2023 12:10 PM (GMT 0)
carlnpa, there was a woman who's boyfriend was in the Valneva trials for this new vaccine. He developed arthritis and Lyme symptoms and she was desperate trying to get help because she wasn't getting any help from Valneva. I posted about it on this forum but seems like I can't find it.
Posted 1/20/2023 12:11 PM (GMT 0)
Ok I found it:

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4273301
Posted 1/20/2023 12:30 PM (GMT 0)
Pubmed history

"The Lyme vaccine: a cautionary tale"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

The new vaccine is about making money.
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