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Posted 7/27/2012 4:03 PM (GMT 0)
I buy my supplies from Edge Park. Works good if I'm not doing much, but I like to get out in my shop and plasma cut, weld, bend over, pick up parts, manly stuff don't ya know. I get hot and sweaty and from all the bending and maneuvering my wafer starts coming off. I always clean good before I apply it and even put waterproof tape around the four sides of it, but it just wont stay on for a full day of working. I know my "keg" (not six pack) may have something to do with it but I don't know what to do in the mean time. I can't sit on my butt all day, that's not why I retired. I wanna work, get hot and sweaty and make some money doing metal work.
Posted 7/27/2012 4:46 PM (GMT 0)
What kinds of products are you using under the wafer? Do you use adhesive remover? If so, are you sure to wash it off w/soap and water (otherwise, it'll keep removing your wafer too). Skin prep and stoma powder can also make it not stick as well.

Are you using a convex wafer? I was having a lot of leaks until I switched, just because my belly was soft (I was pretty thin then too)?

Have you tried sure seals? They are like the tegaderm used to hold IV's down -- clear plastic. You can use them outside the wafer instead of the tape. They hold it down really well, and also let you breathe, sweat etc.

Some people also find it helps to put a heating pad or hair dryer (on low for both) over the wafer for a bit after you put it on to make it stick better.

Have you talked to your stoma nurse? Maybe there's something you can be doing differently. You should be able to get more time than your getting.
Posted 7/28/2012 8:43 PM (GMT 0)
ray-
make sure you "heat up" everything after applying. For me, I make sure everything is super super dry before applying and then afterwards run the blow dryer on everyting for about one minute.

Tell us what/how your are changing your system. We may have more ideas for you.

Also.. coloplast has a new product called brava.. something. They are semi circle things that you put on the outside edges of the wafer. Just tried them for the first time this week and they WORK. I exercise, swim, run etc..in hot humid weather and was having the same problems as you. The outer part of the wafer would always start to peel back and even me-fix tape wasn't holding. The "sure seals" that others recommend were ok, but sometimes cause me skin problems. These brava ring things... you just put over the outside edges.. like where you would put tape.
They have them on edgepark and my insurance covers them.
Call coloplast and tell them your problem and they wiill send you samples.
Posted 7/29/2012 8:45 PM (GMT 0)
Here's my routine...

1 - Remove old bag & wafer.
2 - Wipe off any waste with baby wipes.
3 - Clean area around stoma with ReliaMed Protective Barrier Wipe. (I use one to clean around the stoma and one to clean the entire area the wafer adhesive will contact)
4 - Let dry for a few seconds
5 - Cut out hole in wafer (Hollister #14804 convex) to match my stoma.
6 - Apply Eakin ConvaTek Cohesive (#839002) wax seal to wafer opening and roll back wax ring so it is the same size as the hole in the wafer. Makes a little dam around the wafer hole. I also make sure it is pressed down on the wafer good.
7 - Put wafer on and lay down so it gets good and flat while holding my hand over it to give it some heat to seal.
8 - Remove paper covers from adhesive on edges of wafer and smooth them down flat while still holding down on wafer for body heat.
9 - Don't do anything for about one minute while adhesive sets up.
10 - Cut four pieces of water proof tape and put it around the edges of the wafer. (1/2 the width of the tape on the wafer and the other 1/2 adhered to my body.
11 - Close the end of my ostomy bag and open a package of Adapt Lubricating Deodorant.
12 - Pour into large opening and rub it around to coat the inside of the bag.
13 - snap bag into place and I'm all done.

Let me know what I could be doing different to make my wafer stay on better. Just today I was out in my shop grinding and welding, working up a sweat and I start smelling the poop. Looked down and my tape had started coming off and the wafer was down to the wax ring. Had to stop what I was working on and come in and shower and change it all out. I'd really like to be able to work all day without worries of the wafer issue. Maybe I'll try super glue. HAHAHAHA. shocked
Posted 7/29/2012 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
What is in the baby wipes?  Even though you are thinking you are getting it all off if there is lanolin or something that might be leaving even a slight film, that might be why there is an adherance problem?  Just a guess.

 

Posted 7/30/2012 7:39 AM (GMT 0)
Baby wipes leave a residue behind. Plain old water on a cloth will work better. I had terrible leaks when using barrier wipes. I switched to Cavilion Barrier Spray. I used the Sureseals whenever I would be sweating. I also used an Ostomy Secrets sports wrap. The material absorbs moisture so your skin stays dry. The Sureseals and ostomy wrap were probably overkill. Eventually I stopped using them and I was fine. BTW, the convex wafer is a must!
Posted 7/30/2012 12:02 PM (GMT 0)
Agree on the baby wipes. You might try a product called safe n simple peristomal wipes. They don't leave any residue. I use them when I need to change and it's not convenient to take a shower to wash up. No problem at all.

But without them, plain water, or a mild soap and water (but be sure all the soap is off) would be much better than baby wipes.

I also skip the skin prep, unless there's a very red area. It makes the pouch not stick as well. You might try once w/out it and see if it helps/hurts.

Let us know how it goes....
Posted 7/30/2012 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
ps -- my nurse just gave me some of that tape that ddd45 mentioned to try. It's Coloplast Brava Elastic Tape #12070. I've only had it on for a few hours, but it is comfortable. I haven't made up my mind yet on how it compares to sure seals, but I hope I like it, as I too sometimes have some skin issues w/the sure seals.
Posted 7/31/2012 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Ok folks, this is what I was told by the ostomy nurse that talked to me during chemo yesterday…

1 – Do not use stoma powder or skin prep. She stated the skin is like fish scales full of pores, crevasses, and not smooth. This uneven skin causes the wafer to adhere to the skin more securely than using skin prep. The skin prep smooths out all the skin’s roughness and makes for a nice smooth surface but the wafer will not stick to it as well.

2 – She recommended the following…I am currently using Hollister Wafer 14804 that has a tape border. She said to start using Wafer 15804 that does not have the tape. The tape border doesn’t stick well when it gets damp from sweat.
Also there is what she called the “Cadillac” of all wafers. It’s the Cymed Two-Piece Cut-to-Fit System Barrier. For stomas up to 1-3/4 use the small (part number 58100). For stomas up to 2-1/2 use the large (part number 68100). If you’re able to use the small wafer you can also use a 8” closed bag (part number 55645), but if you use the large you may be forced to use an open ended bag (part number 68364 for clear or 68464 for opaque) that you drain and reseal.

3 – Now as far as prep… remove all the old bag and wafer. Trim or shave all hair around the stoma and anywhere the wafer will contact. Clean around stoma with Dial soap (can be the liquid) but don’t use anything with lotion or emollients. Clean the surrounding area and around the stoma real good and rinse thoroughly. Next dry completely, maybe using a hair drier on low setting. Make sure everything the wafer will touch is perfectly dry. Cut the appropriate size hole in your wafer to fit your stoma. If needed use the wax rings to build up the area around the stoma. She said you can even use up two if needed. Use no stoma powder or skin prep. Apply wafer over stoma and smooth out edges around the wafer. Again hold in place and use a hairdryer on low setting for about a minute to make the adhesive more sticky and adhere to you skin better.

NOTE: There is another product she recommended for those hard to adhere wafer and its called Pink Tape made by Nui-Hope. She said it is a super adhesive, solid plastic, acrylic based adhesive tape. The one caveat is this tape, she says, will pull your skin off. (Hopefully she was exaggerating); however, she stated the only time to use skin prep is when using this tape so it comes off easier. Once your wafer is fully set, apply the skin prep only to the area outside of the wafer when the tape will be sticking. It should make removal much more tolerable.

All of the products can be found in the Edgepark product catalog and maybe in other catalogs, I don’t know. I know Edgepark will send you free samples to try if you call them, explain your situation, and tell them what you want to try. I’m calling them today.

That’s about all my friends of Healing Well. Stay safe, Heal Well, stay positive, and keep posting.

Ray
cool
Posted 7/31/2012 3:45 PM (GMT 0)
Not disputing the advice from your nurse at all...try what she is recommending personally for you. If it works really well then that is the right combination for you. Many of us here have had the initial "trial and error" and what works for one does not necessarily for the other as there is no "one size fits all" situation. It is not rocket science for sure but there is definite tweaking along the way to get what is right for each one in their own way. For the first 3 months everything was fine until hubby developed a reaction to the adhesive...tried another system for about the same amount of time and developed the same situation....finally switched to the Coloplast Sensura system and it has worked like a charm for the past year. Initially needed paste and inner seals and deeper convexity...now no paste, no seals just the skin prep and the light convex wafer system along with the 1" belt that he has used since day one. Plus he has the nu hope hernia support belts for golfing and when doing more strenuous things to hopefully keep him from getting a hernia.

(I am saying this as the Smith and Nephew skin prep in a spray bottle was a much needed improvement that worked and works for my husband. Each time he goes to remove his wafer it is not necessary to do so...he prefers a Wed/Sun full change so he can be in the shower without the bag. He recently went 8 days and it was the same as changing every 3 and 4 days)

Best of luck.
Posted 7/31/2012 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
I totally agree than then is no one solution for everyone as each case is different. I was just posting what my nurse told me to try and maybe give others ideas to improve their situation, if they not happy with their situation. Just points to ponder.
Posted 7/31/2012 4:28 PM (GMT 0)
Absolutely Ray...maybe one of the things you mentioned from your nurse's advice may be the one thing that makes the difference for someone else. Always feel free to offer personal advice and also what you are given as that may help someone else.

I just want to point out in my husband's year 1/2 and my countless hours of research here and on another board that there are many ways to go about this and accomplish the best result for an individual as there are no real set rules that is an absolute. My husband's nurses at Mayo gave us certain guidelines we followed and once they didn't work totally, I found the advice from others was an additional piece of the puzzle to help him out. They also recommended doing exactly what we are doing here in reaching out to this community for advice, hints and tips from others.
Posted 7/31/2012 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hello raymorris! (and all others!)

I noticed you mention the chemo nurse...I too, have those special ladies in my life. I am battling ovarian cancer since March of 2011.

Just wanted to say hello, and wish you the best. I kinda like knowing someone with an Ostomy, AND cancer...like me!

Fondly,
Mollie
Posted 7/31/2012 7:57 PM (GMT 0)
Nice to make your acquaintance Molly. I got diagnosed with a cancerous polyp in Dec 2010 and have been fighting this thing ever since. Did radiation and took chemo pills from Dec 27th, 2010 until Feb 2011. All seemed to work good, no sign of cancer... until Aug 2011 a CT scan showed the little boogers were back. That's when I had the radical 16 hour surgery on 9/6/2011, removed my rectum, put in an colostomy, removed my prostate, and 13 lymph nodes. One of the 13 nodes showed cancer. Another CT scan showed my rectal cancer had spread to my lungs so I started the IV drip type of chemo a month or two later after getting out of the hospital and a bit of recovery. But while taking chemo there was no signs of spreading, enlargement... they remained the same. Once I finished my six months of chemo another CT was performed and the tumors had increased in size so my oncologist said while on chemo it was holding the tumors at bay. Needless to say I am currently on my second treatment of my second (actually third if you count the chemo pills in the beginning) round of chemo which is suppose to help shrink metastasized tumors. I feel fine with no side effects what so ever. I have high beliefs that the good Lord will touch my body and heal all my cancer. All of us who have this horrible disease must stay positive, visualize a successful outcome, and believe in the Lord's healing powers.

Thank you the introduction and allowing me to share my story.
God Bless You and be with you always.

Ray

Post Edited (raymorris) : 7/31/2012 2:01:36 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/31/2012 8:19 PM (GMT 0)
Ray...so sorry for all your troubles...sincere wishes that you are able to overcome this and have a successful outcome. You have certainly been to h$ll and back and deserve a break. Nice to hear you are feeling good and not having side effects. May it long continue for you and yours. Prayers for you from this house.
Posted 7/31/2012 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
ray. glad you got your stoma nurse to look at it. Just a few other tips.. if your wafer and system is not leaking around the stoma, then I would be hesitant to change it other than just switching from the tape border one. Your problem seems to be that its falling off at the outside edges. So I think just by getting rid of your baby wipes. And just cleaning with plain dial soap or even just no soap and water that will help a lot. And yes, use the hair dryer after cleaning and before applying the wafer and again after your whole system is on. And then for about 30minutes do not bend, move, or twist.

Definitely try the sure seals or the coloplast brava elastic barrier strips. ..( thx blue.. those are them). Neither of those items will alter the hold/fit of the wafer around your stoma but instead they are intended to solve your specific problem... the outside edges of the wafer peeeling away in humidity, activity, water, and sweat.
best of luck ray. you will get this figured out so you don't have to worry about it every day.
Posted 7/31/2012 9:43 PM (GMT 0)
Dear Ray,

Wow...I love a man of deep faith! Thanks for the reply.

God bless you, and good luck! As John Calvin would say...


Mollie
Posted 8/1/2012 3:29 AM (GMT 0)
You have been through so much. I hope you can get a handle on your situation.

Switching to the Convatec convex moldable wafer with a whole Eakin seal and being very diligent with heat and pressure saved my sanity. I began this regime all at the same time, so don't know for sure if one or all contributed to my now getting 7-10 days wear.

I finally read the instructions that came with all of my sample appliances stressing the importance of heat and pressure. Taking suggestions from other ostomates, I began to use my hairdryer to thoroughly dry the area and then use it to warm the Eakin seal and the moldable wafer prior to applying them. Eakin goes first directly on my skin around my stoma and then the wafer on top of the Eakin. Once both are in place, I alternate heat from the hairdryer and pressure for 3 minutes or so being very careful to shield my stoma with the cap from a can of mousse [hint courtesy of Another UC Wife].

I also use medium Sure Seals which match up nicely with my wafer. Another option is to use Opsite Flexifix tape, which is the same material as the SS, and just "picture frame" the appliance with the tape.

As your ostomy nurse suggested and many others here often say, "less is more'' when it comes to powders and skin barrier/prep products. I have never had an issue with them and use both every change. So yes, we all are different. Many have issues with Convatec. I love their moldable and put it on diamond shaped, rather than square and then my Sure Seal on top.

Sometimes I even go longer than my 7-10 days. Like right now, I am experimenting because I have been home alot. I am on day 16. Not recommending that, but there is nothing indicating that my Eakin has broken down. I will change tomorrow regardless.

One last thing I do, and I do think it helps. There is a product you can purchase for quite a bit of money, but there are alternatives to the concept. It is the Equalizer by Stomaplex--nothing more than a piece of rubber tubing. You can see how it works and there are a couple of videos within this first link below. I went to Lowe's and bought a foot of rubber tubing and my son cut me off a 2-inch piece--works perfectly. The other 2 links are products I found in the plumbing department at Home Depot for around $2 each. They can be purchased in different sizes depending on stoma size and flange size. All the same concept of even and steady pressure on the wafer around the stoma where it may be hard to get fingers into. Even the correctly sized top of an empty bottle would work.

Good luck to you. And, you will get there. These support groups are the best !!!
Posted 8/1/2012 1:17 PM (GMT 0)
I think the equalizer is a nifty little idea. Might just have to make a run to Lowe's today. Thanks for sharing this tip.

Stay safe, Heal Well, stay positive, and keep posting.

God Bless.

Ray
Posted 4/3/2013 11:02 PM (GMT 0)
I've been an ileostomate since I was 22 years old. I'm now 60!
After roughly 34 abdominal surgeries in 8 months - yes, you read that right (we just stopped counting) about a year later my rectum & anus were removed along with a toxic mega colon.
I urge you to factor the following in to your decision: If there is zero possibility of "re-connection" Think Down The Road ... You have YEARS of Life to Live After surgery!!! If your rectum and anus will serve no purpose going forward consider life without them. Just saying ...
Now for reality of rectal/rectal surgical offered for you to consider:
The procedure to remove your rectum and anus is likely NOT your final experience in this area. This is a positive statement!
A Plastic Surgeon excised scars and oozing stinky semi-healed scar tissue at my rectum/anus surgical site which went quite deep. The surgery was over quickly, using a spinal block. I wasn't knocked out. He cleared the site and, faithfully following detailed instructions to clean and repack the sterile dressing daily to ensure the wound healed From the Inside Out, I Never experienced one problem Again, Ever!! Remember, that was 30+ years ago... Hope this helps
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