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Posted 9/14/2015 12:35 AM (GMT 0)
I very much appreciate the frankness of this board and I have a feeling this question will reflect that description.

I have a new permanent ileostomy (8/17/15) and am slowly figuring things out. My question is this. How do you wipe? How do you clean things up after emptying your bag? I'll describe what I do and look forward to different ideas that might help keep things neat, quick, and efficient.

Being almost through my first month of having my ileostomy I find that my output is pretty thick. In the past few weeks I had taken to using a squirt bottle and really getting the bag cleaned out when emptying.

I found this produced two problems for me. First, after a day or two of getting wet from the squirt bottle any filter on the bag became useless and I'd wake up in the morning wearing a balloon. Second, I have a short little stoma and have a difficult time getting things sealed up when changing out bags. When using the squirt bottle I find that when the water mixes with the bag contents and sloshes around the stoma it sneaks its way under the seal and starts to burn. So now I try to avoid the squirt bottle which makes things a little more difficult and messy to clean up.

Lately I've had to squeeze out the output as it is thick and usually doesn't come out on its own. I fold up about four squares of toilet paper over onto themselves and into little "strips" of about 1" by 3" and use those to clean up the inside end of the bag. It will usually take me three or four of those to get things taken care of. Sometimes I feel like I'm in arts & crafts class folding up all these little bits of paper and wonder if there is a better way or a product to make things easier.

So have you found a way to take care of business that's really easy? I'd love to hear about it!

Thanks!
Posted 9/14/2015 1:34 AM (GMT 0)
I have a temp ileostomy so my waste is still like water. I am responding in support of you
Posted 9/14/2015 1:56 AM (GMT 0)
I use a squirt bottle. The Geritrix Benzoin Compound Tincture that I use under my wafer is waterproof so the water doesn't loosen the wafer. When the vent/filter stops working on a two piece you can open the top of the bag and let the gas out.

Dan
Posted 9/14/2015 3:32 AM (GMT 0)
Ive tried about 5 different bag systems myself and had surgery the same day as you. I'm hoping to stumble on something clean and easy myself! One thing I can tell you for sure is depending on the bag u wear depends on how easy it cleans with tissue paper. I've used the sensura mio several times now and that is by far the easiest bag to clean. They really mastered that design, wish everyone else would follow suit. Unfortunately for the rest of the pouches I don't think there's an easy way man.
What's worked for me with the convetec, hollister, and cymed pouches I've used so far is just apply good pressure on the closure with tissue paper then go over it again with a wet wipe again using pressure pushing any loose stool downwards. Hope that makes sense. When I do that it seems to leave minimal stool when I re open the bag to empty again. I feel your pain though, it's when you re open the bag and see residue on there it's kind of gross. The only pouch that I've tried that doesn't have that issue at all is coloplast. Unfortunately I don't like the size of that bag at all, way too small.
Using water to clean the bag every time is pretty annoying too and I feel the same way about it eating at the wafer
Good luck with your journey!

Pat
Posted 9/14/2015 8:44 AM (GMT 0)
Pat, most pouches come in different sizes. Coloplast has the "midi" and the "maxi". Call them and ask for a larger pouch size. They are always happy to oblige. I wear the midi....the maxi is way too big for me!

Excuseme, I know Polish Dan and I have been preaching at the newcomers about the Benzoin Compound Tincture but honestly, do yourself a favour and at least try it. Everything that you have posted and asked for help on was me three years ago. Dan was kind enough to encourage me to try it and now it's the only thing I use.

Good luck.
Posted 9/14/2015 10:49 AM (GMT 0)
I found out after a while that there's absolutely no point in cleaning the inside of the bag, whether you're emptying it or whether you're changing it - either way, there will be no smell if you do it right.

For emptying, I would drain or squeeze out the vast majority of the output, flattening out the bag to get rid of any air as I did so. Then I would concentrate on the velcro tab. I would pinch that shut with my thumbs, running them to and fro along the edge several times, until there was no more seepage. For mopping up the globules of output, I used dry tissue paper. In my experience, wet wipes didn't help and actually made things worse, although damp, as opposed to soaking wet, paper will probably be okay.

It was a bit of a to-do but it did stop the velcro tab from getting soiled between emptyings. Although sometimes I got lazy and it happened anyway.
Posted 9/14/2015 11:55 AM (GMT 0)
My procedure is similar to NCOT's. I use Hollister bags with the velcro closure. My output is more like toothpaste, water will not swish it out. I do try to clean the inside of the draining outlet as best I can, otherwise the residue tends to squeeze out when I'm folding the outlet up to fasten it. I use a couple of squares of toilet paper wrapped around a clothespin (a tip posted here quite a while ago), and wipe out as much as I can. I do have a squirt bottle I use to dampen the toilet paper clean the outside of the outlet, especially those annoying plastic flaps at the end of the Hollister bags.

I've decided not to worry about the inside of the bag itself. I did try to clean one once, ran water through for about 20 minutes, got a lot out, but still far from clean. In any event, when I put it back on, it's not going to be clean for long. As for the stoma, I don't worry about it, it is, after all, the inside of my colon, has spent its life covered with poo.

Ann
Posted 9/14/2015 12:26 PM (GMT 0)
i've never used water tor isne out the bag- seems silly, to be honest. It just get dirty in about 5 minutes all over again! My technique is pretty simple- read it on this forum, of course! Someone mentioned a "toilet paper tampon"... so I tear off a long piece of TP, roll it up into a thick tube, then just stick it in the bag & swirl it around the bottom. I do this 2-3x, make sure the ends of the bag are clean, then just fold & velcro shut. It takes about 3-4 minutes??? The only time I really "clean" the stoma is if I take a shower with nothing on, otherwise, it's always covered with stuff!
Posted 9/14/2015 1:08 PM (GMT 0)

polishdan said...
I use a squirt bottle. The Geritrix Benzoin Compound Tincture that I use under my wafer is waterproof so the water doesn't loosen the wafer. When the vent/filter stops working on a two piece you can open the top of the bag and let the gas out.

Thanks, Dan

I bought some Friar's Balsam since the last bag change and look forward to using it. Is it basically the same thing as the benzoin? Also, I understand the concept of "burping" the bag but some of them, like the Mio I'm wearing now, are such a pain to actually get unconnected and reconnected to the wafer that I may as well be wearing a one-piece.

The search for the perfect bag continues....

B
Posted 9/14/2015 1:11 PM (GMT 0)
I clean mine pretty much the same way as Eva. I flatten everything out of the bag & squeeze it out the end. Roll up about 4-5 squares of toilet paper, stick it into the drain part of the bag and swirl it around. Depending how good the toilet paper is/the consistency of my output, I do the between 1-3 times. Then I just get 1-2 squares & rub the opening once before closing it - sometimes a bit of output gets on that. Then fold it up.
It seriously only takes a couple of minutes, never been any hassle for me!
Posted 9/14/2015 2:15 PM (GMT 0)
I use the benzoin tincture as recommended by PolishDan...works great! Also, I rinse my pouch three times with water then add three "drops" of M-9. Then I have a small roll of toilet tissue about 1/2 the size of a cigar to clean out the end of the pouch.

But here's the secret. Drink two 5 oz glasses of red wine each night before going to bed. Will make you friendly, happy and most of all, will convert your output to liquid.

Can you think of a more valid reason to drink?
Posted 9/14/2015 2:47 PM (GMT 0)
I push all the contents out and then I use a squirt bottle to rinse the end. Then I use TP in the end to dry it. There is no stool on the TP because it's already clean from the water. I never had a problem with output going under the wafer from the water. I only use a quarter to a half squeeze bottle of water, just enough to get the end cleaned out. It also sounds like you definitely need convex, I would stop using flat ASAP. My skin got to a really bad state with flat. The filters don't work. I feel like they are more for people with colostomies. Liquid output clogs the filter. I wake up with a balloon every morning. There is no good solution for releasing gas. My output varies, sometimes thick sometimes thin. When it's thin, it's really easy to empty because the contents come out of the pouch easier.

I do the same process no matter what brand I use. Coloplast has the nice side velcro but I've managed to get that dirty way in the beginning... I usually use hollister, I like the long tail, it seems easier to clean for me.
Posted 9/14/2015 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
Tom1: Am I only allowed two???

Ann
Posted 9/14/2015 10:02 PM (GMT 0)
I create a pad of TP by folding it over a couple times, then pressing the opening between it to squeeze out the excess, then roll up the pad into a tube and swish it around the opening to get the dregs. If it's especially icky, I'll wipe it down after clipping it closed again.
Posted 9/15/2015 12:57 AM (GMT 0)
ExcusemwINTP
Friday's? Are you in Canada?

Dan
Posted 9/15/2015 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
That should say Friar's not Friday's

Dan
Posted 9/15/2015 1:05 AM (GMT 0)
Well, I guess I'm the oddball here. When I empty my pouch I let what will slide out on it's own go, run my fingers down the length of the pouch to squeeze out what didn't get emptied...then I get some toilet paper and wipe off the outside of the end of the bag if needed, then put some toilet paper around my finger and wipe out the bottom of the inside until it is clean enough to neatly close back up again. I have never considered rinsing with water because it seems time consuming and messy...besides, there will be more poop in there soon anyway, so I never saw the point in getting it very clean!
Posted 9/15/2015 9:50 PM (GMT 0)
I have a second way I empty a lot - this is the easiest way possible. In the morning, instead of emptying, I take a shower with my pouch and when I am done, I swap the pouch to a new one, usually a mini size since those come 20 in a box (hollister) and they are easy under clothes. I ziplock the old one with the contents in there and any paper towel I use to clean the wafer area. Then at night, I swap to a normal size pouch, ziplock the mini and toss! I usually empty the mini 2 or 3x during the day but it's tiny so I don't get caught up in trying to get every little bit out of there, plus not much is in there. I should try wine. thin output is so much easier to empty. Output during the day always seems thinner for me. Maybe it's all the coffee...
Posted 9/17/2015 11:11 PM (GMT 0)

UCwhat? said...
Well, I guess I'm the oddball here. When I empty my pouch I let what will slide out on it's own go, run my fingers down the length of the pouch to squeeze out what didn't get emptied...then I get some toilet paper and wipe off the outside of the end of the bag if needed, then put some toilet paper around my finger and wipe out the bottom of the inside until it is clean enough to neatly close back up again. I have never considered rinsing with water because it seems time consuming and messy...besides, there will be more poop in there soon anyway, so I never saw the point in getting it very clean!

This is what I always did. And yes, truly with an ileostomy there is no "clean" for anything that isn't separated from your stoma by an impermeable barrier. Opaque bag and forget about it.

I did keep a box of baby wipes in my bathroom at home as it made the process of wiping out the inside of the tail faster and cleaner but it's certainly not necessary.
Posted 9/18/2015 12:09 AM (GMT 0)
I use a folded up Kleenex on the inside 1 inch of the pouch. I find that I usually need 3 to 4 of them, but for me it works great. I would make a huge mess if I rinsed out the bag and really... why bother, 5 minutes later it will be filled again.

Good luck as everyone finds their own tricks!
Posted 9/18/2015 2:09 AM (GMT 0)
I pull off 4-6 squares of TP and fold and fold again until is about 2 inches wide and I crease this in the middle. I have a small spray bottle with water nearby and spritz the folded and creased TP to dampen it.

I squeege out all the contents of my pouch and then place the end of the pouch into the fold of the dampened TP and firmly hold the TP and pull it away from the edge. This cleans the outside of the opening and pulls out the remnants of what is right inside the opening.

With the “goop” inside the fold, I then wrap the TP over the end of my finger and swirl it around the inside of the opening.

The dampening of the TP works like a baby butt wipe, but is flushable.
Posted 9/18/2015 1:55 PM (GMT 0)
So how often do you guys change your actual bag? I was reading most only change the wafer every 5-7 days, but are you clipping in several new bags during that 5 days? Or just keep emptying and cleaning the same bag??
Posted 9/18/2015 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
I only change my bag when I change my wafer...which is every 6-7 days most of the time. If the bag just gets extra worn or gross for some reason I will change it sooner, but that doesn't happen often. I also wear a different bag at night, it's a high output one, so this probably cuts down a bit on the wear of the one I wear during the day.
Posted 9/18/2015 3:09 PM (GMT 0)
I change a lot. I've seen people in other countries mention changing the whole set up every day. I don't like to change the wafer too often because it can be harsh on the skin. I change that every 5-6 days. I change the pouch every other day on average. Sometimes I will wear a mini-pouch during the day and switch to a normal size before bed. That's technically 2 changes in one day. It's really easy to change if you wear a 2 piece snap-on and it's fast.
Posted 9/18/2015 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
I change the wafer every 6-7 days, the bag itself maybe every 3-4 days, if I remember. Sometimes I go the whole week with the same bag- if for some reason the bag gets kind of gross, then I'll snap on a new one. I generally use 2 bags for every week of wafer wear time- just cause they send you the bags in boxes of 10, & the wafers in boxes of 5, so... The WOCN I saw told me to wear it as long as possible, at least 4-5 days, the wafer- changing more frequently can cause skin irritation, from pulling the wafer off, scrubbing the goo off your skin (if you use seals), etc. And really- those things stick!!!! Even spending lots of time in the pool does nothing to shorten wear time.
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