75 years old - why a mile stone

I am very good about health maintenance...mostly. I see my primary doctor every 4 months, my heart doctor every year, my urologist every year, not to mention my gastro guy, every year.

My urologist recently told me to stop taking my prostate medicine because I am now 75 years old. My reply was, "do you mean that I don't have enough longevity to survive the cure?" He said that was part of it.

My primary doctor recently reduced my sleeping pill (Ambien) dosage in half, from 10 mg to 5 mg. He is concerned that the dosage will remain in my system too long. He said studies show that the metabolism slows considerably at 75 and I may be at risk of falling.

My thoughts on this. I have been without a colon for almost 10 years. Seems to me that any medication that I take gets flushed pretty darn quick.

I need my 10 mg dosage to sleep. At this age I have no worries about addiction.

Hi Tom, I want you to know, what drug you are on. I understand you need sleep, I just want you and others taking benzodiazipines and z-drugs to be more educated.

Christine 1946 you need to read this as well as does anyone taking a sleep pill or benzodiazipine (Klonopin, Ativan, Xanax and the numerous others in the class.)

I am a human rights activist and know a lot about many pharmeceuticals and side effects mainstream med community is unaware. As well as mechanism of actions of many drugs.

Anyone taking a benzo or z-drug needs to read this. Ambien is 1 of the z-drugs=zolpidem. I've linked below, unfortunately sleep pills go to the same receptor as a benzodiapine therefore they have the same "mechanism of action" and are basically a lower mg benzodiazipine.

Excerpt for Tom re: The brain receptor Ambien goes to. Scroll down to Z-Drugs=
1 being ambien:

http://www.psychmedaware.org/HistoryBenzodiazepines.html

Excerpt:>

These are not chemically benzodiazepines but they bind to GABA receptor complexes which are close to or actually coupled with benzodiazepine receptors. They are said to be more selective, binding mainly to the a1 GABA receptor subtype which mediates the hypnotic effects of benzodiazepines. In practice they are not all that selective and have much the same actions as benzodiazepines.

ME:> For those unaware of how benzos really work, here is the Ashton Manual written by a doctor of the name Heather Ashton in UK. She studied them, told the truth about them but the Ministry of Health ignored her warnings and a Dr. Malcolm Lader's. Both of these doctors are now in their 80's and the fight in UK Parliament to bring the info out to patients and docs is still ongoing headed by activists and a Parliament member by the name of Jim Dobbins. The 2 above mentioned doctors have been trying to get this info to public for over 4 decades.

Heather Ashton had a clinic working with people that were dependent and got side effects trying to discontinue. Not addicts, regular everyday people that were not told by their doctors they could form a dependency if taken daily for as little as a week, among other things.

Ashton Manual - Truth on benzos for those that are dependent. Most become unwittingly dependent due to doctor's error saying "as long as you take a low dose you are fine." Not true. Any dose taken daily, the brain can change and form dependence in as little as a week.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual


Me:> Both z-drugs and benzodiazipines are associated with what is known as Benzodiapine Withdrawal Syndrome if 1 is dependent and discontinues rapidly or if 1 is dropped in mg they can be in a level of withdrawal causing panic and agitation and insomnia (which is only 1 mild side effect of many, some being physical) until their dose is brought up to bring them out.

Tom, if your doctors drops you 5mg of Ambien from 10 mg to 5 mg, and you are dependent, (which is not a psychological addiction, not a psychological plus physical addiction, but merely a physical dependence as you have no psychological ties to the drug, but unwittingly under false direction from your doctor became physically dependent), your doctor dropping you 5 mg's, could cause you problems and you will have NO idea why, nor will your doctor. He'll blame you if you say you can't sleep, are getting sweats, panic and more, saying it's your age or your stressed or more nonsense. He will not know you are in withdrawal because you are dependent and he dropped mg's.

These side effects are 1 reason people get polydrugged with more psyche meds and that is how people are in fact winning court cases with TX attorney against doctors unaware what the side effects are, which lead them to polydrugging their patients.

Many more reasons for lawsuits being won as well.

If you are dependent, you will never sleep on half the amount you've been taking. Your will brain require more than the dose he dropped you to, to allow sleep. I know all the info on these drugs your doctor does not and send people to an attorney in TX when they are given these drugs and problems arise. Our doctors (most) have NO idea how they work. Our doctors know nothing about the drug equivalencies or side effects.

You will see your your z-drug on the bottom of the benzo equivalency chart. Zolpidem=Ambien.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

The base equivalency for ALL benzos and z-drugs are determined using valium.
Your doctors does not learn this in med school.

Because these drugs have different eqivalents, they need to be measured against the 2nd benzo ever made which is valium with the longest half life, to determine what mg the patient is actually on. You can't just switch a person from 1 to another unless you know the equivalent so they go on the correct same dose. This rule is for z-drugs and benzos.

*They were never meant for long term, I have the clinical trial info falisified on Xanax and Ativan (Lorazepam) as well.


Equivalency charts:>

(The Ashton Manual), 2002. The approximate equivalent doses to 10mg diazepam (Valium) are given.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

(Check out the side effect list in withdrawal symptoms of ABOVE linked Ashton Manual. That potential is for sleep pills like zolpiclone, zolpidem, (ambien, lunesta, sonata etc) as well as all benzodiazipine.

Eg: 0.5 mg of Xanax (alazopram) = 10 mg of Valium

0.5 mg of Klonopin (clonazepam) = 10 mg of Valium

0.5 mg of Ativan = 5 mg of Valium

0.5mg of Ambien (zolpiden) = .25 mg of Valium


Tom if you switched from 10 mg of Ambien = 5 mg of Valium

and

switched to .25 mg of Xanax =5mg of Valium, .25mg of xanax that Christine suggested, is the only dose you can switch to, to be on the same equivalent as your Ambien.

Personally I hope you can sit tight on Ambien to prevent further potential problems.

Info on a bit on falsified Xanax Clinal trials. This doctor who authored it works with the attorney that fights for damages I've referred to.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/xanax3.htm

Anyone on Ativan, this Dr. Malcolm Lader refers to Ativan side effects in his paper I've excerpted the paragraph.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/lader2.htm

"When somebody comes into my office and says that they've been trying to stop their lorazepam, my heart sinks because I know I shall have twice as much of a problem as getting them off, say, Valium: the symptoms are more severe, they're more persistent, more bizarre, and people are much more distressed by them... I feel that this compound should not now be prescribed because of the problems which may arise in some patients." Professor Malcolm Lader, member of the Committee on the Review of Medicines, Brass Tacks, BBC2, October 20, 1987.

Biggest class action suit against benzo side effects

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_long-term_benzodiazepine_use#Class-action_lawsuit

Excerpt:

Benzodiazepines have a unique history in that they were responsible for the largest-ever class-action lawsuit against drug manufacturers in the United Kingdom, in the 1980s and early 1990s, involving 14,000 patients and 1,800 law firms that alleged the manufacturers knew of the dependence potential but intentionally withheld this information from doctors.

ME:> Last, you could quit taking a benzo or z-drug (sleep pill) you've taken long term, and not get side effects/withdrawal. Keep in mind there is a phenomenon, called "kindling effect". That means, the 2nd time you take them, you will get side effects. Even though the first time you did not. This happens to many many people as well.

I'm not trying to scare anyone. I simply want you to know the truth about what you are on with sleep pills and/or benzos. Your doctors, does not have this information. And there is much, much more.

I'm not surprised to hear that no doctor told you Christine. You have NO idea, how many times I've heard this. I wish I had alternative sleep suggestions as well, but I don't. :(

Most doctors don't know the real scientific facts on how the drug works, therefore they are not able to give "transparent informed consent" on what they're prescribing. They memorize a lot of false info, (which positively markets the drug), which is typically a "small relatively benign blurb" that withholds the truth......It's all pretty disgusting and has been going on for so long. With so many drugs at that.

More collusion and conflict of interest of course between pharma co, politicians, and docs at that level. The public pays.

Gosh, you weaned yourself off all by yourself. That's what people do, many losing jobs, homes and the rest unprepared for the side effects. I'm really sorry.

I have 2 ideas drug related as to > maybe your anxiety would be "nil" or "less" if you weren't still experiencing a)protracted withdrawal or b) tolerance withdrawal.

Other than that, I personally have no recommendations. Again I'm sorry.

a) is a scenario if you weaned yourself off of Ambien and thought it was successful timeline wise, but were still left with anxiety and insomnia.

a) If you were on Ambien, and weaned yourself off, if you did it - i) too rapidly, you would in fact have had what's called, protracted withdrawal. Meaning your brain never changed back to normal to reach homeostasis and all the gaba receptors that were not replenished because of a rapid withdrawal, left your brain ina state of excitement/ overstimulation which prevents sleep and causes anxiety.

Is that why you went on Xanax? Still no sleep and anxiety after weaning off of Ambien? Protracted withdrawal, can last 6 - 18 mos after discontinuing, weaning off the drug. Rapid weans can make protracted withdrawal a longer timeline.

AND:>

ii)If you went to xanax after ambien, (how long after?) and could sleep again etc., depending on how long you've been on xanax, you could now be in tolerance at your dose finally.

"Tolerance" meaning your brain has adjusted to the dose you are on. That means, your mg is no longer enough and you are always in a constant minor state of withdrawal. Your brain doesn't have enough of the drug now that it is adjusted to it's current mg.

No longer having enough drug, it needs more mg's to put your brain to sleep( and dampen your central nervous system as it's a depressant), it simply can't bring your brain out of overexcitablity (insomnia), and overstimulation and can't shut down your adrenals from over pumping adrenalin (causing anxiety), as everything is in a constant state of overexcitability.

That is called Tolerance, or Tolerance Withdrawal.

These are common drug side effects of benzos and z-drugs and reason doctors polydrug patients with more psyche meds, not understanding "tolerance withdrawal" or " drug equivalencies".

**If you really don't think you fit in point i) or ii), and aren't experiencing a side effect, I don't know what to recommend as said.

I do know, many people learn they're in tolerance while on the drug, and realize after the fact, their life would not have felt full of anxiety but the "tolerance" drug side effect magnified "regular" life problems. These side effects magnifying regular life problems, leave the person feeling they are no longer able to cope.


Just an angle for you.

My heart goes out to you as well.

Anyone in Van B.C. Canada can contact Dr. James Wright of the University of British Columbia. He is aware of everything I'm telling you. He is at the university teaching hospital and helps those that unwittingly become dependent on benzos and z-drugs, to safely wean off correctly if they choose to wean off.

If they called it what it was, drug side effects instead of withdrawal, people would get help. You can't make money off of the words "drug side effects". Manipulating the wanting the drug to stop side effects into; wanting the drug because a person is an addict, and calling side effects upon discontinuation, "withdrawal', the politicians can keep their hands clean as "who cares about people with drug problems". So many campaigns are paid for by big pharma today.

This is one point they're fighting in Parliament.

The patient doesn't even feel the benefit of sleep or anti-anxiety benefit, if that is why they are on the drug, if they start tolerance withdrawal.

Plus if they want to discontinue and can't stop taking the drug due to feeling strong side effects upon discontinuation, they're stopping side effects by restarting the drug. That's all. With no other benefit than that. They are not getting high. They are stopping side effects only.

Again, some benzo and z-drug side effects are so severe, they render the person, unable to physically and mentally function. It seems futuristic yet it's been here, a long time.

I wish I could help more with sleep suggestions. I'm sorry I don't have alternatives, when I just post the negative drug potential.

I weaned myself off the Ambien gradually. Whereas, I was taking one every night, then went to every other night for a few weeks, then every third night, etc. I never had any side effects. I was ok for awhile, but my disease struck again about a year and a half later, causing extreme discomfort. My doctor prescribed Xanax for my anxiety, but only gave me ten pills and told me to take them sparingly, which I did. They lasted about six months. I have a lot of back pain because prednisone left me with severe osteoporosis and three back fractures. I was taking Ibupropen, but, my colorectal surgeon told me to get off it because he thought it was contributing to the flare of UC inside the anus. He prescribed Tramadol, which I only take 1 pill a day, if needed. I do try my darndest to take as few pills a day as possible. I HATE taking pills. Before my operation, I was taking 17 to 25 pills daily plus rectal meds, so it has been glorious not to travel down that path again.

Hi Tom, you're welcome and I'm glad I can pay this information forward.

I really don't think you can call yourself a "low information person" however.

Your doctor didn't know the truth about the drug side effects so is unable to give you "transparent informed consent" =100% truth about drug side effects and how the drug works = mechanism of action. He knows nothing about that, or the drug history, arbitration, fighting in Parliament to get the truth out to public, non of it.

This means he is a "low information person". Not you. :) xo

As well, he irresponsibly told you "nonsense" reasons to cut mgs because he said the dose will stay in system too long (false, read half life below), and the risk of you falling down.

He has illustrated he doesn't understand, if you were dependent, by cutting your dose in half, he's sending you into withdrawal even on the drug if you were to keep taking it. Half the dose is "too much and too fast" of a reduction if one is dependent.

AND:

a) The sleeping pill you're on has 1 of the shortest half-lives. Ambien has a 2 hour half life. Half life = The half-life of a given medication is how long it takes for the body to get rid of half of the dose.

*Therefore your body doesn't hold Ambien that long.

*What causes side effects and dependency with this class of drugs, z-drugs and benzos, is how they affect the brain.


Valiums is 20-100 and with its active ingredient it puts it up to 36-200 plus hours which is the longest. This is why many people cross to valium to taper if they are on a short half life sleep pill or benzo. It's easier to taper not going into withdrawal with such a long half life for many. It all depends on the level of dependency.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

Zolpidem = Ambien, Stilnot, Stilnox / 2 hour half life.

Zoplicone = Imovane, Zimovane / 5- 6 hour half life.


Ambien has a really short half life. This means if one is dependent and reaches tolerance, they get withdrawal quickly on short half life benzos or sleep pills between doses because it's half life is such a short time.

Important point, it's not how long it's in your system it's how much has it changed your brain.

1) EG: The Gaba Receptor is what our natural Gaba connects/binds to in order to make us relax/sleep etc. Benzos and sleep pills, dissolve Gaba Receptors because the brain becomes lazy when taking those pills and discards the Gaba Receptors.

2) The benzo or sleeping pill takes over it's "new" job of the Gaba Receptor.

3) Once this happens it means physical dependency. People taper off to accommodate the Gaba Receptors slow replenishing. But that takes time and requires a taper.
Little bit of the drug out, more Gaba Receptors come back and so on and so forth slowly until homeostasis again.


If, and I say if, 1 is dependent, and mg's are cut in half, a person has too little Gaba Receptors left, to keep the brain and body thru central nervous system, out of a constant state of overexcitement.

No other drugs, impair the bodies central nervous system by depleting the Gaba brain receptors which are responsible for the "relax" aspect of the brain and body's function, the way the way benzos and z-drugs do.

That's why they should be called side effects, not withdrawal.

Christine1946 said...
I weaned myself off the Ambien gradually. Whereas, I was taking one every night, then went to every other night for a few weeks, then every third night, etc. I never had any side effects. I was ok for awhile, but my disease struck again about a year and a half later, causing extreme discomfort. My doctor prescribed Xanax for my anxiety, but only gave me ten pills and told me to take them sparingly, which I did. They lasted about six months. I have a lot of back pain because prednisone left me with severe osteoporosis and three back fractures. I was taking Ibupropen, but, my colorectal surgeon told me to get off it because he thought it was contributing to the flare of UC inside the anus. He prescribed Tramadol, which I only take 1 pill a day, if needed. I do try my darndest to take as few pills a day as possible. I HATE taking pills. Before my operation, I was taking 17 to 25 pills daily plus rectal meds, so it has been glorious not to travel down that path again.

Hi Christine, I'm glad you could wean off the way you did! :) It really all depends on how much the brain has changed, the dependency. Many have to go much slower, taking the pill daily, cutting weekly or bi-weekly. As well, I very relieved to read you did not get more severe physical side effects. I'm so so glad to read this.

As well, UC and these bowel diseases sound so incredibly painful and complex. You've really been through it. That said I'm sure you hate taking pills and I completely understood people having to depending on their condition. Many many catch22's. :( And I'll bet it's glorious not to travel down the path of so manys pills as in the past. xo

NiceCupOfTea said...
Alternatively I took zoplicone for months at a time without getting addicted. It's still the only sleeping aid I've found that actually works and doesn't leave me feeling groggy the next day. Unfortunately I have a different GP now and she won't prescribe it (although I'm going to try again the next time I see her).

If only patients could be warned about the dangers and then allowed to make up their own minds about meds.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. And with doctors not getting the truth passed to them, we don't get honest info to make an informed decision for ourselves. It's a mess.

Just remember if you get another script, below is a copy and paste of a point I wrote in my first post on this thread:>

ME:> "Last, you could quit taking a benzo or z-drug (sleep pill) you've taken long term, and not get side effects/withdrawal. Keep in mind there is a phenomenon, called "kindling effect". That means, the 2nd time you take them, you will get side effects. Even though the first time you did not. This happens to many people as well."

Just a heads up NCOT.

*Thankyou for not minding the info Tom. I don't want to take over your thread so I'm off.