Needle Tracking

It's certainly a theory. On the one hand, the body is not that 'partitioned'. Prostate cells have access to go elsewhere already via the blood vessels, etc. that supply it. It may be that some do all the time, but the body's immune defenses generally catch and kill those that migrate out of place.

On the other hand, particularly with PCA, it tends to be slow growing and remain in place. Otherwise, most of us here would have been in even more trouble than we are/were. So, it could be that the capsular wall of the prostate acts as a reasonably effective barrier for some period of time. In which case, the biopsy tracks could, in fact, be trouble.

But, I don't believe anyone knows. I personally guess its more the former than the latter and eventually, as the tumor(s) get bigger, the number of escapee's eventually beat the odds of getting caught by body defenses. But I have absolutely no evidence of this, it just sounds like a good theory to me.

Unfortunately, there is no other definitive test than the needle biopsy. I was very surprised at the time that this was so (but then, I thought the whole thing was just a nuisance and that nothing would be found). Man, talk about change of life! As I'm sure is true with most here, I went through a range of emotions I never knew I had. So much for the old self reliant, macho self image. Now I wake up with a "hey I'm still here" attitude every day that I'm sure is better than the 'take it for granted' of before. While I hope to get back to as close to 'normal' as possible, I hope that part lasts.

My understanding is that if PCa cells leak out during biopsy or surgery, they have a hard time getting established elsewhere. They need to get hooked up to a blood supply, they need to avoid the body's natural defenses and they need to be able to reproduce -- the odds are heavily stacked against escapees.

Semen is mostly prostatic fluid, and I have never heard of women catching PCa from their partners, before or after PCa diagnosis. After my diagnosis was confirmed, I was concerned about having sex with bloody semen (from the biopsy). The answer then even, was no risk at all to my wife.

PCa just doesn't seem to spread via needle track or sexual contact -- and just as well!

So yes, there may be a very small risk in having the biopsy, but the risk in not having one is much greater.

Thanks BillyMac -- I should have known that. The immune system attacks foreign cells and of course someone else's cells, cancerous or not, are "foreign".

Roll up, roll up, roll up. For just a few dollars you purchase my products and can escape the torture inflicted by modern day doctors. cvc, there is no evidence of biopsy 'tracking' just a theory that it could possibly occur. I would treat with great skepticism any claim by a 'doctor salesman' flogging his own secret ingredient herbs and spices products and trading on people's fear and apprehension.
Bill


(edit for possible misunderstanding)
CVC Please don't think this is a jab at you or your post but charlatans really raise my ire and particularly when they have "MD" after their name. If you are interested in his treatment then invite him to send you the reference of his tracking claim or if it is his personal observation, he should really publish his groundbreaking study results.

Hey Guys:

I'm with billymac on this.  Wheeler's web site is full of anecdotal stories about individuals who have shown improvment with his supplements.  My guess is that any improvements were either from diet or accidental.  He throws in references to lots of studies but shares no real data to back up the claims about his products.

He certainly won't be getting any of my money.

Dear Mr. G.T.O. my advice comes from the book of mathew (sp?) Paraphrased Dont worry what will be will be. No man can add a single day to his life by worrying. I know that sounds really anal of me to say but my brother it is the truth. My doc told me I have 36 months to live. I fired him and got another doctor who says my tumors are nowhere to be found. I had a really bad week in between. The worrying did nothing but raise my blood pressure. The good news is this. Your P.S.A. is low. If you have Pca it probably will be in the early stages and you will have a host of treatments available to you. Relax. PCa is not a death sentence. Just a real pain in the ass. you will be OKAY. I will be praying for you. Todd

I read in Entrez many moons ago where there are 2 suspected cases ever reported world wide of seeding from prostate to rectum via needle biopsy. I'm thinking it occurs as rarely as Congress makes a timely decision...banker bailouts excluded of course :> } I'd relax on this possibility.

Swim

According to my urologist, malignant cells can escape during surgery.

According to my radiation oncologist, malignant cells are sometimes left behind during surgery, especially if the cancer is at the bottom of the prostate, as this is a difficult spot to get everything out.

FWIW

My DH had a needle aspiration years ago that resulted in an imediate spread of TCa. The result was emergency surgery and wider area of radiation during treatment. Without doing an ultrasound the urologist tried to aspirate what he "thought" was a hydrocele. What he attempted to aspirate was a tumor, allowing cells to enter the lymph system from what WAS a confined tumor. Rule number 1...never let Paul go to the Dr. alone for so much as a shot! I would have never allowed such a stupid mistake to happen. Now, almost 14 years and PCa later, all is well. Capt. Paul has an angel somwhere :>)

swim

GTO (life in the fast lane atleast for those cars of the 60's/70's) 'Grand Tourismo Omolegato'=GTO
(some called it gas-tires & oil...hey I am near Detroit area we are car freaks by nature)

Even though your pathology looks great, get a copy into your hands and better still get it reviewed by a few of the experts like: Bostwick, Epstein, Oppenheimer etc. (there are only a handful that are considered the best at this). Now why do I plug doing this???

Upon expert reviews there are cases found where: gleason 4 turned out to be gleason 8 or gleason 6 turned out to be non-cancerous, crazy stuff like that, do you know what high grade P/I/N is, it is basically a possible pre-cursor to PCa but is not classified as PCa when discovered, only expert pathology might discovery P.I.N. as it is not easy to define looking at the slides. Gleason score(s) can be one of the most important stats to have clarified up front, if possible. Hey you could get the new urine testing also and see what it reveals, perhaps the biopsies taken might have missed what you could possibly have within you (it can happen that way...sorry to mention).

Get the book- A Primer on Prostate Cancer (Strum/Pogliano authors)

Neutrondbob-zufus (had to fire a few docs in my 'fun' journey with PCa...I love my insurance company for that luxury)