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Posted 5/22/2009 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
I'm recently diagnosed PC, PSA 3.2. Biopsy came back 8/12 positive, Gleason 3+4=7. I am strongly leaning towards having a daVinci to be done by Dr. Benjamin Chung at Stanford Hospital. Should I consider any special diet or supplementation regime to follow after surgery to help insure that I remain cancer free 40 years from now. I'm 57.

I have been very successful in keeping my Diverticulosis very well controlled by taking Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes for almost three years now. When my Diverticulosis was first diagnosed, the Doctor was pretty confident that intestinal surgery was in my future, but I have been virtually symptom free since using the Probiotics and Digestive enzymes. I wonder if similar results can be achieved to insure no reoccurrance of my PC after surgery.

Great site, this is my first day here.
Posted 5/22/2009 2:07 AM (GMT 0)
There is a lot of information on the web about PC diet dos and don'ts. Some seems reasonable but some is highly speculative at best. One thing that most agree on is avoiding animal fats especially red meat and any dairy with fat. My personal bias is to rely on good diet and avoid supplements but that is just bias. Overall, a good diet is pretty much the same as a heart healthy one. In fact one friend warned me that I was actually raising the probability of dying of PC because I was reducing the probability of the more likely killer -- heart attack!
Posted 5/22/2009 2:10 AM (GMT 0)

Welcome Hiilawe,

I am reasonable new myself and you will see that are stats, age, psa, gleason etc, are very similar, the only difference is that I am about 5 months in front of you.  I too have been taking many supplements to try and help my situation.  So far things are going good and I will have my 5 monthly psa check-up next week, so fingers crossed it comes back ok.

As you can see by my signature, I had daVinci, on the day before X-mas day 2008.  I had the operation in Sydney, Australia, by  a  well respected surgeon here Dr. Philip Stricker. I was extremely pleased with the results and had no problems at all.  I have regained full control of the water works within a week, but Mr ED is still a problem, but I am working on it with Meds (Viagra etc) and starting to see some improvement, but they tell me it can take up to 12 mnths to 2 years to return.

As far as supplements/diet etc are concerned, I have become a Doctor Google, and have researched many different types of supplements and diets which claim to help with PC.  I can only suggest you do the same, as the choice is many and varied.

Don't forget to keep doing you pelvic floor muscle excersises, I found they really helped me with my recoverey.  I am looking forward to following your progress, please keep posting here, I have really found it a benefit, reading others posts, as you do learn so much.  As you will find out there are many here far more experienced than myself, whom are more than willing to help you with some really great advice.

Stay positive, non of us really wanted to be here, but we are......Cheers Nothard

Posted 5/22/2009 1:47 PM (GMT 0)
Hello Hiilawe,

Geezer's comment about the heart diet is good advice. Dr Ornish, the heart diet guru, also did a study with PCa and the diet had a beneficial impact on PCa as well. His diet is tough to follow though. Very low fat <12%.

There is also some advice on diet from Dr Myer's in his book on beating PCa with hormones and diet.

A third resource that seems popular is the China Study by Campbell. Essentially no meat, no dairy, no refined foods and lots of vegetables.

Good luck with your treatment.

Don
Posted 5/24/2009 10:50 AM (GMT 0)

Geezer's comment about the heart diet is good advice. Dr Ornish, the heart diet guru, also did a study with PCa and the diet had a beneficial impact on PCa as well. His diet is tough to follow though. Very low fat <12%.

There is also some advice on diet from Dr Myer's in his book on beating PCa with hormones and diet. "

I agree, and I usually  suggest  Dr Myers book "Beating Prostate Cancer: Hormonal Therapy & Diet"  as essential reading for anyone who needs to consider hormone threapy.

Dr Myers has also published another  more detailed book on diet which is probably more applicable for someone interested in diet and supplements.

Posted 5/25/2009 11:47 PM (GMT 0)
My Onc told me that there were large studies done on how the diet influencies the PCa. The only result they were able to derive is that people who eat diets rich in fish are better off. I was not able to find the study myself, though. Also, while he referred to this study he recomends what he calls a "heart healthy diet" - low fat/colesterol, aspirin regiment, reduced red meat/dairy, more fish and vegies - the usual stuff. I am trying to follow this (sometimes this is hard for a dedicated carnivour) and also added pomegrante juice and green tee supplements. Both were shown by several studies to reduce the rate of PCa growth. Good luck with your surgery. I think your chances of remaining cancer free for the rest of your life are pretty good, given that it sounds like an early stage disease.
Posted 5/25/2009 11:57 PM (GMT 0)
H Hil, I noticed your post because of your diverticulosis....My husband has the Pca,,,I have the diverticulitis. I totally agree that the probiotics work very well for me, also chewing food more carefully and eating more slowiy. Since my original attack 1 year ago, I have not had a problem..knock on wood... My husband is fighting the beast....Pca...for seven years.. We eat mostly fish, chicken. meat once or twice a week,...He takes pomegranite juice twice a day, and also capsacin....We dont know if it works...We are living each day...Good luck to you and yours....Di
Posted 5/26/2009 2:06 AM (GMT 0)
Obviously good diets are good for every system, whether it be PCa or cardio, or IBS. I just wish someone could tell us why I had a Gleason 9 versus someone else with a 4 or a 5.

I have not been able to find any definitive study that cleary says red meat, or high fat, or lack of pomegranete juice. It all appears to be inuendo, and red meat and fat are always easy targets.

I am going to PO'd if I change my diet from a failrly reasonable diet, to what I will call an unreasonable diet, get 10 years out, come down with climbing PSA or metastatic Ca, and then read a study that says diet isn't really a key factor, but some other major factor we have overlooked. In our chemical laden society, it is hard to pick what chemical we are ingesting and eliminatiing through our urinary tract that could be a possible carcinogen that causes PCa.

Odds are good based on my initial numbers that I have 10 good years remaining, cancer free. I really want to enjoy life, not worry that the NY strip I am enjoying might be killing me !
Posted 5/26/2009 4:59 PM (GMT 0)
goodlife,
I think "The China Study" has pretty clear scientific evidence that red meat and dairy have a significant affect on cancer. It was the largest study of diet and its affects that was ever conducted.
JT
Posted 5/26/2009 7:07 PM (GMT 0)
JT

If I read the China Study book and nothing else, it is fairly convincing. If I look at some of the arguments by other scientists, I get confused. Is Campbell trying to sell a book, or sell being a Vegan ? Both possibilities.

Look at the following website for example

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

To me, this puts some of the results of the China Study in question. Also, cancer is a big word, from a skin leison , to PCa, to liver, to etc. I guess I am still looking for the one that discusses PCa directly.

Thanks for the feedback. This is a big information game.
Posted 5/26/2009 8:00 PM (GMT 0)
Goodlife,

On the other hand, the guy who wrote that article, Chris Masterjohn, can tell you all he knows from his education, which is a undergraduate degree in history.

He is closely connected with a organization that is completely opposed to Cambell and the China Study.

" Chris Masterjohn is the author of several articles appearing in "Wise Traditions in Food, Farming and the Healing Arts" - the quarterly journal published by the Weston A. Price Foundation. He's also lectured on vegetarianism and infant nutrition at the national Weston A. Price Foundation conferences in the Chantilly, Virginia and has lectured on cholesterol, vitamin K2, and vegetarianism in Maine on behalf of the Casco Bay Maine chapter of the Weston A. Price Foundation. "

So, while Campbell may not have all the answers and may have a "extra" vegetarian agenda, this guy Masterjohn has no formal scientific background and is totally biased in his own right.

The internet, where everyone is a expert,and can make assertions about anything.

Franklen

Post Edited (Franklen) : 5/26/2009 2:04:09 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/26/2009 9:12 PM (GMT 0)
JT

I couldn't agree with you more ! All of it only adds to my pressing question. Does anyone realy know why I have Gleason 9 ? Did I eat too many hamburgers and shakes ? Or. in the bigger picture, does it really matter ?

I guess if I was 20 years old, the diet thing might be worth the self deprevqtion. At this point , I'm a little fatalistic. The horse may already be out of the barn.
Posted 5/26/2009 10:11 PM (GMT 0)
I've posted this before but it seems relevant to this discussion.

Dr. Patrick Walsh is one the most respected uro's in the country. From his book "Guide To Surviving Prostate Cancer."

On diet he says "Animal fat is bad for you, especially the fat found in red meat and dairy products. Men who eat a lot of these foods are more likely to develop advanced prostate cancer and die from it. Why? There is an enzyme in prostate cancer cells that craves the fatty acids in dairy products and red meat. Consequently, when a man with prostate cancer consumes a diet high in these foods, his cancer cells get nine times more energy than normal cells. ......."

Here is an expert who lays out his opinion. We know that PCa takes a long time to develop. Unfortunately we can't go back and change our diet from 30 years ago. There is the possibility that we can influence the reoccurrence and the progression of the disease. I have tried to cut red meat and dairy from my diet and it is extremely hard to change life long habits.

Mike
Posted 5/26/2009 10:20 PM (GMT 0)
Well said Mike !

As a guy just grappling with the newness of having a life threatening diagnosis, I am also trying to be careful not to jump on the first log that floats by. Sometimes the log turns out to be a turd.

All of these guys have many more degrees behind their names, and much more upstairs than I, but as time progresses, we find even men and women we call experts are mistaken.

My mom told me ********** could lead to blindness. I think she was wrong.
Posted 5/27/2009 12:00 AM (GMT 0)
As you can see everyone has varying opinions of supplements. Here is what I know, when I went to the Cancer Treatment Center of America I felt as though I was at the end of my rope. In addition to a few lifestyle changes the put me on a vitamin regime that I feel truly gave me more energy and helped me sleep better. Did it cure me? No way, but it does help cope with side effects. Just my thinking.

peace and grace
dale
Posted 5/27/2009 2:37 AM (GMT 0)

Welcome Hiilawe,

I wish you all the best with your treatment.

Feb 10, 2009: Meeting with dietician.  She tells me I need to cut back on fats and increase vegetables and fruit intake.  Exercise a bit more, too.  OK . That can work for me.

March 3, 2009: Meeting with Urologist for biopsy report (see signature). There goes the diet.  Bring on the comfort food!  Try to keep exercising up until surgery.

Post surgery: Dinner brought to the house every night for 3 weeks.  Very nice and tasty, but not a heart healthy diet.

I guess it's time to get back to better eating.  Although, I am hoping that the beer tastes good again soon.

DS

Posted 5/28/2009 6:00 PM (GMT 0)
WHY SURGERY....HAVE YOU SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED RADIATION ? I DID IMRT AND CAME OUT IN GREAT SHAPE, NONE OF THE DIAPERS, LEAKING, ED THAT YOU MAY EXPERIENCE WITH THE KNIFE REGARDLESS OF HOW IT IS HANDLED.
Posted 5/28/2009 9:42 PM (GMT 0)
When I changed my diet my PSA went from 40 to 30 after rising consistantly for 10 years. Also My heart risk numbers went from high risk to low risk in just 1 month. This is enough for me to continue it.
Just like some people get lung cancer who don't smoke, but we all know that smoking causes lung cancer. People who eat a healthly diet may still get prostate cancer but at a lower rate. I also believe that although diet may not cure PC it can slow it down.
JT
Posted 5/29/2009 1:19 AM (GMT 0)
JT

This PSA is some curious stuff. I was scheduled for a biopsy because my PSA went to 4.47. The next month, my PSA dropped to 3.44. about 25 % drop. I did nothing.

Yours dropped frrom from 40 to 30 after you made a diet change. about 25 %.

Then add in the latest AMA statements about PSA, and how doctors are over-racting to it and scaring men unnecessarily, yet the large majority on this forum owe their detection to PSA testing.

Does my drop from a 4.47 to a 3.44 mean my cancer activity changed, or is it due to lab technique, or diet, or does it just fluctuate like that ? Pretty curious stuff !
Posted 5/30/2009 3:49 AM (GMT 0)
My wife's cousin (who is an MD) had his DaVinchy in July last year. After he was diagnosed, he modified his diet drastically - no meat or dairy. A "brick" of toffu a day. Lots of salmon. Lots of vegetables. His PSA went down significantly. He attributed this to soy - it is known to lower the testosterone. He is "undetectable" since surgery and looks great. Lost 20 pounds.
Posted 5/30/2009 5:47 PM (GMT 0)
Godlife,

PSA is made up of two factors, the psa your prostate generates and the psa the cancer generates. The prostate generated psa can flucutate due to a number of causes from sex and bike riding to infections. The lower your total psa the more influence your normal prostate has on the number, hence the larger % fluctuation..The PSA generated by the PC usually has a steady increase and tends to fluctuate only when given treatment. I think in my case the PSA generated by my prostate was at max 6, so everything else was PC.
You're right in that there is some fluctuation. I've had about 40 or 50 psa tests and have seen a 10% difference in labs when taken just a week apart.
The psa drop could be a result of something other than diet, but it dropped 4 months in a row and that has never happened in 10 years. MY heart related numbers Chol, HDL, LDL, Tri and Glucose all dropped from high to low in the same period so I have to attribute this to diet.
JT
Posted 5/30/2009 10:35 PM (GMT 0)
JT

Thanks for the information. There really is so much stuff to try and absorb, and try to make sense of it with regards to our personal situation.
Posted 5/31/2009 3:22 AM (GMT 0)
confused  I'm new to this list and just beginning to explore. I'm 51, just had my first PSA test and it came back at 4.8. Next step is a urologist. No family history. Lots of cancer in the family but all pancreatic. I've been looking for explanations and finding little useful information to help the novice. One report I saw said that level represents about a 35 percent chance of cancer. Thanks to those posting here - this is the most information I've found. Please keep the information coming.

Tom

Illinois

 
Posted 5/31/2009 3:57 AM (GMT 0)
Tom,,

AS you have probably read through the different posts, the PSA is merely a warning signal that tells the urlogist to look more cloely. Rate of change seems to be important, as does level, but a 4,8 by itself does not necessarily indicate cancer,

The biopsy which I woulod assume the urlogist will do will tell you what is actually happening. And then with prostate cancer being a relatively slow growing cancer will slloe you to look at options for treatment if indeed cancer is found. From wait and see, to radiation, to sugery.

I too have found this forum to be extremelyy vslluable, and even encouraging. We are not the only ones with prosate issues, and the men and women on this site truly care av=bout each other. There is little if anything thaqt cannot be discussed on this site.

Good luck in your journey, and keep in touch with us.
Posted 5/31/2009 4:07 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you, goodlife. I'm looking forward to what I can learn from the conversation here.
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