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Posted 11/1/2009 6:53 AM (GMT 0)
New member tonight. 

Had a RP on 9/9/2003 and have been impotent since.  I am now 58.  When I realized I would be impotent for life (after about 6-8 months after surgery) I was suicidal for about 6-8 months.  The only thing that kept me alive was my 2 daughters, then 8 and 11.  I knew my beautiful wife would be OK.  My wife stuck with me for 6 years. 

On September 29, my wife told me she was in love with a man that I have known for a # of years.  She told me our marriage was over.  I was devastated. 

I should also say that my wife was very supportive of me a year after the surgery.  She said she would not run away from me because she loved me.  For the last 5 years we have actually had much pleasure in our lovemaking.  I used the injection method.  I can only use the "missionary" position but it had been very pleasurable for me.  She also told me b4 she left me that the sex was always good.  (To me, it was never sex, it was always making love--and I knew something was not right when she did not have an orgasm the last 2 times we made love).

At any rate, I believe my wife is actually leaving me because of another man's potency  (although he is 2 years older than me).  She would never say so because she knows how that would hurt me.  So, she says that she found "emotional bonding" with this guy first, and then it led to something more.

What are the divorce rates for people with PC 5 or 10 years after the RP surgery?  Are they higher than normal rates of divorce?  I have tried to google this and get nothing.  Does anybody even keep records of this stuff?

Secondly, has anyone had any experience getting back into the dating game with this problem?  I am so hurt I won't be able to date for several years, but I don't want to get old alone either.  Using the injection method with my wife was one thing.  She knew me when I was potent and virile.

I am wondering if my shame will prevent me from ever making love again, or even dating again.  There is nobody I can confide in about this except my therapist.  I can only see her once every 7-10 days.  That's not enought to keep me sane.

I guess I am turning to you people for help.  I am hurting like I have never hurt before.  I am scared and fearful of my future.  I have to be strong for my 2 daughters who are still living with me (now 14 and 17 YO). 

BTW, I am not thinking of suicide now.  My daughters need me!

Thanks for any feedback you may give me.  Positive or negative.  I apologize if you can't follow me.  I still feel like I am in shock so maybe I don't make any sense.

izzard2 

 

Posted 11/1/2009 8:33 AM (GMT 0)

Izzard2

I just had DaVinci surgery 6 weeks ago so I am new here. Please hang on and live. More guys will be here later with advice. I am at work and cannot type for  long.stop for now and take a breath friend, Wes

Posted 11/1/2009 9:36 AM (GMT 0)
Reading your story, you use words like "I believe" and "I think" which are not based in facts. These are your thoughts and feelings and it's natural to think this way, but many people get divorced for many reasons besides a lack of sex in their lives. I have quite a few friends who have gone through divorces and they were in your age range and they got divorced for a very wide variety of reasons. I've seen rock solid marriages that have fallen apart as the years progressed.

I wouldn't beat myself up that a lack of intimacy was the cause of your divorce. We live in a society where divorce is almost the norm and not one particular problem caused the divorce. Usually it is many things that just accumulate and cause people to split up. Divorce is very rough, but more and more people are willing to take that rough ride to see what else is out there.
Posted 11/1/2009 9:51 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Izzard, welcome to the forum and sorry you have to be here.

I don't think divorce is any higher for PC survivors than for the general population. No scientific study to back this up, just my opinion after hanging around forums like this for 18 months.

Sure there are some women for whom an active sex life is important, but there are others for whom sharing a common problem enhances the feeling of togetherness. I think the overall numbers probably balance out.

Most of us here still have a sex life, its just different to before. I think there is no need to beat yourself up over your ED -- your wife would have left anyway. And as she herself has said it is not about the sex. Breakups happen all the time and for all sorts of reasons.

Thinking about the future -- can you forgive your wife for what she has done? Would you accept her back if things didn't work out with the new guy? If so, keep your channels of communication open, and don't burn your bridges -- you might have her back in a year or two.

There is no shame in having ED -- many guys our age have it even without PCa. I can't offer any advice on dating, apart from saying that honesty is the best policy. Let your potential new partner know of your circumstances as early as it is reasonable to do so. If she runs a mile (unlikely), you will quickly know that she wasn't right for you.

There's no denying that that you have had a serious shock. But things get better over time, and this will have a serious impact on your life only if you let it. Get an action plan going (even if it is do nothing for now) and in a few years, you can look back on this a temporary glitch. Good luck!
Posted 11/1/2009 11:31 AM (GMT 0)

Interesting post.  I have a friend that had radical surgery 4 years ago.  He is devocerd now. I think it was something other than the ED.   He is dating have not asked how he deals with the ED now but I know he has a lady friend. 

I have several otehr PC brothers that are doing fine with their married life.

Hang in there guy.  After the shock life will move one in a positive way if you allow it to.

Jeff T

Cajun Country

Posted 11/1/2009 11:35 AM (GMT 0)
Generally speaking – sex/love making is/should be considered like desert. Who doesn’t like warm Pecan Pie and French Vanilla Ice Cream…A relationship can’t survive on desert. It’s important that a relationship be based on the Main Course – aka you get along great in all other areas of the relationship besides sex.

Apparently, and No Offense intended, your EX found a Main Course guy she like better…Or thinks she likes better.

Hang in there…from Yours Truly/Twice Divorced Guy

Posted 11/1/2009 11:52 AM (GMT 0)
Illness can have an effect on a relationship, as can having children who are of dating age. There are just too many varibles to blame it on any one thing such as sex.
I think it is safe to assume that it is more about her own issues, because you just do not say things like that to someone who you have professed to love. That kind of pain inflicting from her, is because she is in pain and felt the need to take it out someone. I think the question then becomes is how do you get back in the game without taking that pain out on others, and that is what a therapist is really good for. I hope your daughters are women who are caring enought to be supportive of their parents, even though their parents are no longer together. It has to be a very difficult situation, pulling in one direction then another.
Posted 11/1/2009 12:34 PM (GMT 0)
Izzard,
I am so sorry for your loss. Life s*cks now, but I am willing to bet you will be thriving in a short while. There are plenty of loving women out there who are looking for a life partner who does not consider a roll in the hay the number one priority. l personally know of a long time widow our age (her husband died of cancer 26 years ago) who told me she wants to marry again and would be happy to find a guy who just wanted love and affection, someone to cuddle and hold her at night, someone to clean the rain gutters and offer to do the dishes after she cooks, someone to talk to in the evening when she comes home from yoga class.
Note: She was not trying to pick me up and she does not know that I had PCa. She was just speaking from the heart.

Here's my 2 cents:
"Dos": Stay on shape. Keep your body healthy and trim so you look presentable when you start to date. Start today! Put down that doughnut and the kid's Halloween candy. Exercise. Keep the house clean and neat. Talk to a lawyer now. She's had the advantage and no doubt has been preparing for this for quite while. You have to catch up.
Start looking at the match sites - but only lurk. It will give you confidence that there are nice women out there and will give you an idea of how dating is done today. Tell every one of your friends that she is leaving.

"Don'ts": Don't do anything stupid like take drugs, or get a tattoo, or make any purchase more than $1000. Don't hang out at the bar because you can. Don't quit your day job. Don't put your kids in the middle of this mess.
And finally: don't date a 23 year old. She only wants you for your money.

As for the statistics, I'll bet right now there are women on the HW Breast Cancer, Depression, MS forums that are asking the same question. No matter what the answer, it changes nothing for you. You have to focus on your future.
Like my woman friend from above once said: "All the good men I meet are either married or gay."
I'm telling you Pal, even without the walnut, you are a hot commodity. It's clear from your post that you are intelligent, articulate, a good father, and would make a caring partner.
After the papers are signed, I'll lay odds you are snapped up in a year.
Good luck,
Jeff
Posted 11/1/2009 1:22 PM (GMT 0)

Tidbits to reflect on:

He who laughs, last, laughs best.....I hope you get the last laugh on this chapter

This too shall pass!

Not to be smug on the 'X'- she will probably find another dude of interest, too

"For better or for worse"- you just witnessed the worst...it is all up hill from here, gets better is what you need to focus on...the future and the kids

All that glitters is not gold, you know it....she will learn about it soon enough

Marriages base upon money and sex are basically shallow(maybe this was not your scenario either), still waters run deep and are comforting, turbulent waters cause people to capsize, get all wet or drown. We are throwing you a life line and reeling you in, big boat that will keep you afloat. (not a poet and I show it-LOL)

Sorry you have to go through such and therapy is expensive, you might want to focus upon some kind of faith based(or similar concepts) people and groups...inexpensive therapy and righteous living make you the proper role model for the young girls you are raising. Mom should have stuck it out for the kids sake, if nothing else. Also, get yourself a good dog, that kind of love is 24/7 and unbreakable...I got two dogs...they make you feel like a star everyday no matter how you are actually feeling, of course my wife is good too...maybe just not 24/7-LOL=  (the high school sweetie has stuck by me),  this is a blessing, of course if it changed I would be blind-sided on this and re-reading this post herein.


Posted 11/1/2009 1:53 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for taking the time to respond.  I appreciate your feedback.

Your answers will help me heal and/or change. 

 

Posted 11/1/2009 2:13 PM (GMT 0)
Hello and welcome, Izzard

Your post and verbage really got to me, could really feel the pain in your words. Working your dates backward, you were about 52 when you had your surgery. Which meant you either had kids much later in life, or you were on a second marriage at least. The fact that you have your daughters living with you still, speaks well of you on your opinion.

From your description, you and your wife were able to continue to have sex and lovemaking to some degree of satisfaction, despite having ED from PC. It is not like you had total ED, and you refused to try other solutions, i.e. injections. If that were the case, and you stubbornly refused to assist you wife in her sexual needs, only then would I believe that she left you for the potency of other man.

We don't know any of your other relationship issues from one post, and we are only hearing one side, but regardless, taking you at your word, if you wife was willing to walk away from you and your children, for another man, then what is that saying about her?

I have been married to the same woman for 35 plus years, I couldn't even imagine to understand the devestation and pain I would feel if she left me, especially for another man. So I won't pretend I can feel everything you are feeling.

You must be strong for your daughters, sounds like you are and you are willing to continue that. I agree with a fellow poster above. Keep your self in shape: mentally, phyicially, and emotionally. Continue your therapy. If you are a man of faith, re-engage in your faith.

You will be a good candidate for another woman, if you are back in your game, PC doesnt have to destroy that part of you. And there will be women that will work with you and understand your issues with your post-PC issue. Not to be mean, but you aren't a 25 stud muffin anymore, you are a man in his late 50s, things and desire and all change with the aging process.

What you want one day, is for a woman to fall in love with the man you really are, one that is attracted to the whole you, heart include.
You penis, whether it is cooperative or not, is not the entirity of who you are as a person or a man. You have to believe that in your heart.

Stay with us brother, we will support you, we will be a sounding board for you, you can talk about anything and everything here. The fact that you found us, means you have another source of help.

We are in this fight together, as we share the same enemy, Prostate Cancer. Keep us posted closely, so we can help.

David in SC
Posted 11/1/2009 2:38 PM (GMT 0)
izzard-I agree, you shouldn't attribute your wife's infidelity to the PCa. People have affairs for many reasons. Here's a link to a forum that you may find helpful in dealing with the situation. Sorry for your pain.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp
Posted 11/1/2009 2:46 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Izzard
One more bit of advice (As if you didn't get enough already). Sweep your PC for keyloggers. You never know what tracking software might have been placed on it.
You don't want to tip your hand unnecessarily. 'Nuf said.
Jeff
If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can contact me offline.
Posted 11/1/2009 3:26 PM (GMT 0)
Here's my take on this issue:

I strongly suspect that the divorce rate is indeed higher for men who are diagnosed with Pca, although that is based on an unscientific survey of people I know who have had or have PCa. Obviously the macro picture doesn't necessarily help analyze or predict the course of a particular relationship.

I am 57, 16 months after surgery. I am living in our garage apartment until our youngest goes off to college in a little over a year. I stay in this unsatisfactory situation because I get to see my daughter more this way than I would otherwise. But after she leaves all bets are off.

We always read these stories about wives standing by their men no matter what. I am sure that sometimes happens, and bless those who do. But much of the time this stuff about PCa being a "couple's disease" is bull. Many women marry a man only for as long as he is useful to her [I said "many," not "all."]. This is particularly true where the woman is still young enough to attract another mate.

I have no plans to date and certainly not to remarry; there's no point [which is also why I will not use a pump, shots, etc. to try to restore my sexual performance].

I will focus on other parts of my life until the PCa comes back.

Of course, you may feel differently, izzard2, and if so you have my full support.

Zen9

P.S. Another aspect of this is the effect of PCa on one's career. I am currently fighting a losing battle to keep my job after a 33 year career - once I returned from treatment, no one at work treated me the same again; I think they feel that they can't give me any long-term projects because they can't be sure I won't get sick again.
[I had significant colon problems at the same time as I had PCa and ended up having six operations in 9 months.]

Post Edited (Zen9) : 11/1/2009 11:12:38 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/1/2009 3:38 PM (GMT 0)
zen - on your personal front, I respect your stand and position. Glad you have enough sense of self-worth to feel that way. That's an admirable position

on the employment front, I feel that directly. been there, done that. when i went through serious cancer (non-PC) 10 years ago, my employer, who was self insured, had enough of me after 5 surgeries, radiation treatments, and physical therapy, and despite giving them 8 years of my life, mostly 50-60 hr weeks being on salary with no comp time, their solution, and they were too smart btw to fire me for medical reason, just happend to down size, and just happened that only my department was eliminated. Beside losing my own job, the 3 people that worked for me had to lose their jobs as well, totally innocent to my own plight. Six months later, gee, things improved, they re-established my department and hired a new staff. Just make sure you know all your federal and state employment law rights. good luck to you preserving your position.
Posted 11/1/2009 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
Izzard2,

I am truly sorry for your pain. I speak from the viewpoint of having been married 3 times. And I thank God for this last one which is 27 years strong.

I am very glad that you found us here at HW. I am only 6 weeks post surgery, but have found this site to be extremely supportive and knowledgeable.

As I read your post, I noticed commonalities with other posts. While not dealing with divorce, they have dealt with sex, erections, and so on.

You said a couple of things that really struck a cord in me and my thoughts about all of this. “I should also say that my wife was very supportive of me a year after the surgery”. What happened in the 5 years that followed? You also said, “I am wondering if my shame will prevent me from ever making love again, or even dating again.”

Making love is almost always used as a synonym for sex. However, it is more important to me that I think from the standpoint of giving love. To me sex is a part of giving love. But it is only a very small part. I give my wife love daily and continually.

Love is characterized by absolute self-gift and reception of the other. In other words, love is not something we give, as if a product or commodity; rather, we give themselves, our very being. The love we share is not something that can be traded or calculated — and the gift of love is not payment for having received love. When love is truly a gift of self, there is no calculation, just the full, free gift of one’s being.

Try going on the internet to find the definition of man. You will find so many definitions that it can become mind boggling. There is one constant in all of them however.

No definition I have ever read, states in any part at all, that it is the characteristic of having an erect penis.

This is something I have given so much thought to since being diagnosed with PCa. Who I am as a man is not defined by being capable of an erection. The love I give my wife does not start with it either. The ability of any man to give love is not defined by it.

Being a man and how I treat others, how I raise my son, how I contribute to society, and etc., has nothing to do with being able to have an erection.

Yes, I know that sex is a part of the nature of man and woman. But how much of a part is it truly in the loving relationship of two people. And sex is not the sum total of having a “useable erection”. How many times have you overheard conversations between women, heard it on the TV talk shows or read it in the women’s magazines; they state that want they desire as much or more than penetration, is the tenderness, the holding, caressing, foreplay and completeness of love making.

Now I now that there are exceptions to any generality, all of us, women and men do not think the same. To some, sex cannot be fulfilling without penetration. But even in this there are alternatives. You have heard the stories of women who have to hide their “toys” because their husbands get jealous. Men have made comments that they think their wives like the “toy” better. And so on. The men, who have a higher sense of self worth and esteem, have not had a problem of acceptance of these “toys”. They have made them a part of their efforts to give love to their partners.

Also, and I think sadly, many of us did not know until we became knowledgeable about all things PCa, that orgasm for us, was possible without erections or the expulsions of fluids. Now we know. Some now know how much more extreme they can be. And many more have found that they and their wives don’t miss the “mess” at all.

So do you really think that there is not a potential partner and soul mate out there for you? Do you not think that there are so many more women who looking for someone exactly like you?

Allow yourself to be who you are (with or without erections) and they will beat a path to your door. And when they do, they will be the person who is absolutely right for you and where you are in this new stage of your life.

Just my opinion and for what it’s worth,

Sonny
Posted 11/1/2009 4:14 PM (GMT 0)
izzard:

I am new to this site and currently taking treatments. I don't have a lot to add, but I do admire you for your dedication to your children.

One day at a time.
Posted 11/1/2009 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
I dont really think my wife would leave me for sex, but she might leave me if we did not have an emotional connection. That is part of the struggle in all of this and that is to deal with the cancer but continue to be a husband, grandfather, father , uncle and whatever other roles we have. As I deal with my current physical pain it is clear to me that it is effecting every aspect of my life, social, emotions, relationships, work, and I have to work real hard to be there for others as my pain is very self centered.

Life goes on atfer a divorce and I know that for a fact. Not sure at age 60 I would marry again, but shoot I dont know. I still feel like a romantic man so it might happen. And I really dont know if there is a higher divorce rate for men with PCa, but even if there was , you would still have to look at why. Is it because of sex, our depression or other factors.

Stick around for those kids as they still need a good role model and you will get thru this.

Michael

Posted 11/1/2009 10:51 PM (GMT 0)
Even tho I am not always concious of it, I know I have changed since I had my surgery. I feell sorry for myself, I am a little more selfish at times, I am short tempered at times, and many other things I am not aware of.

My wife needs to feel a certain way about herself, and her importance to me, and her importance as a woman. Sometimes my changed feelings are in the way of these feelings she needs.

If I were to persist in some of these actions, I would probably be replaced as well.

However, as has been pointed out, it is not uncommon for 50 some year old women to look for something different at this stage of their lives. Sex with someone else is always more exciting, whether you use injections, or are a a stud, the newness of the situation, the romantic words, etc, make it more fun.

I think many men with PC are at a higher risk of having our wives find someone more manly than we are, but on the other hand, if we pay attention to our wives, and treat them like the inmportant figures they are in our lives, we will be able to keep them, because of the love we share.

I really think you need to stop beating up yourself, and much the way you have dealt with cancer, deal with this obstacle in your life and move on. Yes, it hurts, but that too will pass. As Worried Guy has pointed out, there are many women out there who will gladly take up where your ex left off.

You've conquered PC, you can conquer this too !
Posted 11/2/2009 12:57 AM (GMT 0)

In this link from a study that was conducted in Norway, it appears that generally the divorce rate for cancer patients was no worse than for the general population.  The exceptions were testicular and cervical cancer which had significantly higher divorce rates than the norm.  The divorce rate for PCa patients was slightly LOWER than average.

http://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol16/15/16-15.pdf

The authors suggest that these conclusions might hold in any modern society with widespread health care.

My personal thesis is that, yes, in some cases PCa issues may be the trigger that leads to divorce.  But financial issues, alcoholism, etc, etc, are just as problematic albeit in different ways.  Strong marriages will survive difficult issues, weak ones will not...IMHO.

Tudpock

Posted 11/2/2009 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
Tud, the linked study is interesting in itself, but I agree whole heartedly with your conclusion. I am old school I guess, I believe that true loves lasts the distance. My wife would no sooner dump me if I couldn't perform penile intercourse any more than she knows I wouldn't dump her if she lost her breasts due to cancer. We are best friends to each other, both with good points/bad points, strengths/weaknesses. We need each other, and we compliment each other.

David in SC
Posted 11/2/2009 1:11 AM (GMT 0)
There is an old saying that says,

"NEVER HATE WHAT COMES YOUR WAY GOOD OR BAD IT MIGHT BE FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST"

It usually is.

Just take care of YOURSELF and move on. Next move the NEW IZZARD wink
Posted 11/2/2009 1:40 AM (GMT 0)
Izzard,
I think it is only natural that we all look for a reason why something happened. I would bet that the whole affair thing had nothing to do with your cancer. But you are still left with complicated feelings. If your insurance covers it, please get a therapist and talk this stuff out. It will make you a better dad for your kids and a better man for your next partner.
Any woman I know would LOVE to have a good man - and the fact that he is bearing scars from fighting PCa would only make him more of a hero in her eyes. Things like Injections, pumps, pills or any other sexual aids do not bother women as much as it bothers us. Most women would take it as a compliment that you would work so hard to be intimate with her and that it matters so much.
Get someone to talk to so that you can sort out your feelings and clear your head of the depression. Take care of your mental health as much as you took care of your physical health.
Paul
Posted 11/2/2009 1:58 AM (GMT 0)
I don't have the time to reply to each individual who has taken the time to write. So I will say it to everyone:

I teared up reading all the posts. You understand. You have also brought up points that I never considered or am unable to consider because of my present mental state.

I will repay the board when I can. I cannot do it now.

Thank you.
Posted 11/2/2009 2:54 AM (GMT 0)
izzard,

no payment is required. you are a brother of the prostate cancer like the rest of us. all for one, and one for all.

david in sc
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