HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Post SRT PSA/ Choleserol tidbit

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 8/31/2010 12:36 AM (GMT 0)
My next PSA was supposed to be in Oct 2010. I had an annual physical  2 weeks ago and my Primary Care Physician  did a PSA as part of the blood tests. It was .05.  PSA was .17 going into SRT. I'm taking that as good news.  I Thiought that it took a few months for the PSA to go down after SRT. Should I be estatic?

Just a note concerning Lipids. I have been on a mostly Vegan diet for the last year and had my total Cholesterol down to 186. I went off the diet for a few weeks just before my physical --- ate hamburgers, ice creame ane hot dogs on a camping trip- my total went to 244 in just 2 weeks of a binge. No more straying from the vegan diet.

Posted 8/31/2010 1:39 AM (GMT 0)
Tim,

That certainly looks encouraging and you have the downward trend. Wonder if they do the same test for PSA at the PCP? But yes, by all means be happy. My next one was due in Nov. but my physical showed a .3 a few weeks ago, down from a .44.

Michael

Posted 8/31/2010 2:28 AM (GMT 0)
Tim, where have you been. I missed you. .05 sounds pretty good at this point. Regarding lipids, I have gone low fat, not vegan and have recently tested out at 190. Maybe if you do the low fat thing you will be less likely to slip. I don't kbnow how you can stay away from the local sea food. I will be in Maine Colombus Day week-end, and I intend to gorge on the local sea food, sans butter.
Posted 8/31/2010 2:31 AM (GMT 0)

Hi Tim,

My PSA went from .1 to .05 6 weeks after completion of my SRT. My Onc was very (and me too) happy with that result. "It means the target was hit and forced into submission".....maybe. Hopefully it will continue to go down or at least stay at that low level.

All the best to you.

Mag

Posted 8/31/2010 2:11 PM (GMT 0)

Tim-from-Maine said...
My next PSA was supposed to be in Oct 2010. I had an annual physical  2 weeks ago and my Primary Care Physician  did a PSA as part of the blood tests. It was .05.  PSA was .17 going into SRT. I'm taking that as good news.  I Thiought that it took a few months for the PSA to go down after SRT. Should I be estatic?

Hi Tim,

 

Congratulations on your successful decrease in PSA. You should not be concern if it took 2 months to get into 0.05 levels because it may have not reached yet its nadir. There are many cases of PSA reaching levels of 0.01. In my case I went from 2.28 post-SRT to 0.05 in 13 months. Never the less, PSA levels after radiation are sporadically unlinear until they settle. Doctors consider a biochemical recurrence only on the third rise from the lowest nadir that can take years to accomplish. PSA tests taken every 3-month maybe better to recognize any variation.

Wishing you the best,

Baptista

Posted 8/31/2010 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
hi Tim!

i'd say rejoice in your numbers!

i too completed SRT on June 25, '10, but my 6 wk PSA [Aug 5] showed 0.2, down from 0.4 (pre-SRT).  sounds like you hit the PSA jackpot, if you are already down to 0.05 !! the office seemed enthusiastic about getting a 0.2 at 6 weeks, and i'm expecting better, lower numbers at 6 months, but i have even heard that my nadir low point might even be as high as the 0.2

i'm not sure why that can happen, but for now, i can definitely live with 0.2  and .05 is the stuff of dreams

have a good one,

bob

Posted 9/1/2010 6:36 AM (GMT 0)
Tim, 

That is a great number at this point in time...   Looking like the beast has been corraled and beaten...

Regarding cholestorel,  I was always in the 230-250 range even after cutting back on red meats on some fatty foods...   Family DNA has history of high cholestorel, so doc put me on 40mg simvastatin...   Jeesh...   cholestorel went down to 168 in a month, and a few months later after a few more dietary changes (red meat only about once a week and cheeses cut back), my lastest level was doown to 147.    The good cholestorel values are also in the upper ranges.  There are some studies starting to float about statins and lower PSA and sometimes less BCR...   but now they need to see if the lower PSA and other effects are from the lower cholestorel itself or the statins...  Anyway,  another tidbit involving this PCa beast of a puzzle...  Google "statins prostate cancer" and many articles will pop up...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_100471.html

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/statins-and-prostate-cancer.shtml

pasayten

Posted 9/1/2010 12:53 PM (GMT 0)

Hi Jim, Hi bsjoplin

It seems that you are anxious to see where yours PSA levels go. It happened to me too in 2007. However, the PSA in our cases (post-SRT after RP, without HT) act differently and not as linear as we think. Some guys get to very small numbers <0.03 and some at higher levels of 1.50 ng/ml or more. In cases where the prostate gland is still present, some guys experience a bounce that may last for several months, before it goes down to its real nadir level.

The importance is not the number but what it is considered as each one’s Nadir PSA (nPSA=0.0). In my case, the Nadir PSA is 0.26 ng/ml (nPSA=0.0). It sounds confusing, but Specialists from SMKCC in resent researches (2006), recommend the use of the third rise in PSA after its lowest level, (corresponding to PSA=0.0), to serve as the basis for future prognosis of the PC. My lowest was 0.05, and the third rise was: 0.12; 0.18; 0.26 (reached on the 29th month after SRT).

Because of the discrepancies in the values of PSA among patient, back in 2000, Oncologists got into a consensus that Biochemical recurrence (failed RT) was verified once the PSA has risen three times from its lowest level. Accordingly, each case would have different numbers and different periods from SRT to nadir PSA.

I hope that your Nadirs get as low as possible and that it keeps down there for a very long time, with no “third” rise.

Wishing you the best,

Baptista

Posted 9/1/2010 7:25 PM (GMT 0)
Bapista,

I thought NADIR only applied to people who still had a prostate? I could be wrong. For those of us whi have had surgery, our NADIR should be "0". Maybe I misudertand the term. Perhaps others could chime in.
Posted 9/2/2010 3:35 PM (GMT 0)
i'm with you, Tim.  seems like if we gots no Prostate, then the number needs to creep down toward zero, and anything ABOVE that would represent BAD STUFF.  but after i got my 6 week PSA of 0.2, a nurse i was talking to said my (low value) nadir might end out being somewhere between that 0.2 and zero, and be perfectly okay.... (?).. i didn't understand it, and haven't really found a second source for that anywhere.  if anybody understands this dynamic, please holler...the numbers just don't make sense to my little engineer brain...

meanwhile, i'll wait 'til 6 month number and see what happens.

thanks

bob

Posted 9/2/2010 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
Not sure what a nadir should be for prostate removal, but I have heard/read that in nerve sparing there may be some benign tissue left that could generate some low psa, but not be a PCa problem. It would generate a trace value, but not rise over time.
Posted 9/5/2010 10:00 PM (GMT 0)

Hi Tim, Hi bsjoplin

Nadir PSA is a term used by the oncologist to identify the lowest level of PSA after a treatment. The Zero meaning is for a number that may be different from patient to patient (as I gave an example in a post above.

Surely, after RP it is reasoning to think that Prostate-specific antigen (PSA) should be Zero because there is no Prostate gland. However, PSA is not produced only by prostatic cells. It can also be found in semen and at low levels in urethral glands and in body fluids, such as urine and breast milk. You can see its Biochemistry at this site; (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate-specific_antigen).

Hope it helps,

Baptista

Posted 9/6/2010 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
Tim, you are correct in your thinking. The PSA bounce only applies when radiation is being used as a primary treatment. In Salvage Radiation, there shouldn't be any detectable PSA after a couple of readings, and any upward movement after SRT is a sign that the remaining PC was not local indeed. With a primary treatment of RT, you still have a prostate, and though its been slammed with radiation, it can still bounch the numbers up after treatment.

All 3 rad. oncologists I spoke to, told the same story as above, after a salvage, within 1 or 2 readings, it need to drop below .05 on an ultrasensitive test. They consider .05 as still being detectable PC after salvage, and any legitimate upward movement, as evidence of recurrance.

In my case, I dropped to a low of .04 (which was good news), but 3 months later, its back up to .06. Normally, this would still be a great number for a post primary treatment, but since this was a salvage radiation result, may not be good news, especially with me having an extreme high risk factor of fast PSA velocity. My next reading in November will be critical. If it stays the same or goes down, great, it was just a testing glitch, but if it goes up any at all, more likely early indicator that my SRT has/is failing. I will have to wait and see.

David in SC
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply