i pushed my dad to go for a biopsy, will i regret it?

This is the very first I've heard about cancer being spread by the biopsy needle.

Much more importantly, the cancer could not be treated before it was detected and staged, thus the biopsy had to occur. A gleason 8 needs treatment and can't be ignored.

Don't kick yourself over having your dad get the biopsy. It is a necessary tool in the process of beginning to fight the cancer. Trust me, not having the biopsy, and not beginning a treatment regimen is much, much worse.

laila,

The idea that a biopsy spreads cancer is much like being killed by an asteroid hitting the earth. Might happen, but the odds are very small.

The risk of not knowing about a Gleason 8 seem much more dangerous.

The internet is full of "stuff", much is of little value, or sometimes counter-productive. I would tend to trust information from major medical centers a bit more.

Back to the subject of a biopsy - Dave is correct in saying that you can not effectively decide how to treat prostate cancer unless a biopsy is done. A Gleason 8 cancer needs to be addressed.

 

Laila, Great move to have dad do a biopsy. Now he knows and you know what has to be done to extend his life. There is no way you can treat prostate cancer without a biopsy. Do let us know about the consult with the Dr.

It will help if you give us a bit more info about dad... Age and physical condition etc.

You should be proud that you got him to have the biopsy.

Cajun jeff

You absolutely did the right thing. Not even the slightest question about that. The idea of biopsy spreading prostate cancer has never been established. It is sort of a theoretical possibility that people occasionally talk about, but without medical evidence to support it, as far as I know. The MUCH greater risk is having prostate cancer and not knowing about it because you did not want to get a biopsy. Laila, you may well have saved your father's life by getting him to do the biopsy. Now, get him to see a doctor with lots of expertise in prostate cancer, so he can figure out what sort of treatment he wants, and get treated. Some prostate cancers don't need to be treated because they are low grade and not likely to be life threatening. But Gleason 8 is serious enough that it DOES need to be treated (unless your dad is very sick from something else). He will have some choices about treatments. The most likely would be surgery, radiation, hormones, or potentially some combination of those. Best wishes, Medved

Your Dad should have listened to his Doctor in the first place and not put the burden on you. He is very fortunate to have such a caring daughter. You may have just saved his life. Now just try and get him motivated in selecting a treatment. No rush, but don't procrastinate either. Gleason 8 needs prompt attention.

All the best to you and your Dad.

The video in the URL that you've provided sounds a bit scary, but to the best of my knowledge, the '3D MRI Spectroscopy' is not widely available yet, at least not here in Canada. Perhaps a great replacement for biopsies in the future?

Mag

No you won't regret it. It was a very good thing you did convincing your father to have the biopsy. Urban myths such as cancer being spread by biopsy are just that, urban myths, and are usually being pushed by those who just happen to have for sale, another claimed cancer detection method (note in the video the good doc finishes with "that is the theory anyway"). The balloon and water analogy, while sounding good, is not an accurate comparison. The imaging method unfortunately pales in comparison to the accuracy of a physical biopsy and looking at the actual tissue. Now you have good information on what is going on and can make informed decisions. It is, as Piano says, vaguely theoretically possible that a biopsy could drag tumour cells out and deposit them into surrounding tissue. The needle is a hollow tube which takes a plug out from within the prostate. This tissue plug is within the needle tube and stays there and the exterior of the needle is wiped clean by normal prostate tissue as it withdraws from the gland so it is highly unlikely that tumour cells would remain on the outside of a needle as it withdraws from the gland. If the tumour was right on the edge of the gland then theoretically it could deposit cells in the bowel wall tissue but these are not connected directly to a blood supply and will in all probability die off. Neither you nor he should have any doubts that the biopsy was a smart move. In the case of prostate cancer, ignorance certainly is not bliss. Good luck with his follow up treatment.
Bill

Post Edited (BillyMac) : 5/25/2011 7:37:36 PM (GMT-6)

This is a myth. I asked my surgeon about it; he said that in some cases with different kinds of cancers that are deep in the body there a small amount of evidence that a biopsy can help a cancer to spread. However, with prostate cancer, the needle goes through very little of the body other than the wall of the lower colon and so the chance of spread is minimal.

There's another factor too. Early stage prostate cancer cells don't generally survive well outside of the prostate. they do not yet have the ability to attach to other tissues and attract blood vessels to grow to give them nutrients. So if they escape the prostate at that stage, they just die. Additional mutations have to occur for spread to occur. Some evidence of this comes from the fact that in many cases there are patients in whom circulating tumor cells (CTC's) can be found in the bloodstream after the prostate has been removed. But in only a fraction of these (less than a third) does a cancer grow somewhere to the point of being detectible or causing a rise in PSA. So in most cases (though not all), the spread of a few tumor cells is of no clinical significance.

Not treating a G8 cancer, on the other hand, is likely to be fatal.

Be assured that you have done the right thing, and bought your dad many more years of health and life.

With the prostate cance I can't imagine a doctor taking the risk of prescribing treatment without first having a biopsy. I doubt that any insurance or medicare would approve treatment without first having the biopsy. Please understand that the PSA test does not test for cancer. PSA is generated by many factors including cancer, but an elevated PSA doesn't confirm cancer. Nor does an abnormal DRE. It may be indicatrive of cancer but does not confirm it. Thus the biopsy must be done to confirm the presence or absence of cancer.

You did the only correct thing you could do. There is no known risk of spread from the biopsy. There is well known risk of spread by not effectively treating Gleason 8 prostate cancer. You are a great daughter and your father is being wonderfully served by you.

Every cancer is different. Breast cancer requires biopsy and/or surgery to confirm the presence. The standard for most all cancers is a biopsy. Even skin lesions that appear to be cancer are biopsied to confirm the cancer and its specifics so that an effective treatment plan can be determined. That some cancers can be detected without a biopsy has no relevance to prostate cancer and its diagnosis.

Good call, Laila. Yes, a biospy and the resulting knowledge even if it is bad news is better than not knowing. Now your dad and the docs can plan the treatment that should result in him being around for longer than would otherwise be the case.

If biospies could spread the cancer from the area they are sampling then I think they would have been banned years ago. And frankly surgery would be an even bigger risk given large lumps of cancers get chopped off and moved from the inside to the outside. (I'm talking about cancer in general - with a da Vinci surgery the prostate is usually removed whole and in a little pouch)
The risk with a bisopsy of the prostate is about spreading disease as the needle has to pass through the bowel wall and there are lots of nasty bugs in the bowel. So a prostate biospsy should always be accompanied by a couirse of anti-biotics.

Alf