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Key words for PCa (generically)- Twilight Zone, Limbo-Land & 'Expertitus'

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Prostate Cancer
Have you witnessed Expertitus & how did you handle it?
Patientitus did over trump expertitus, doc fired - 75.0% - 3 votes
You mean my doc is not 'THE' expert? - 25.0% - 1 votes
I laid down and became the perfect door mat! - 0.0% - 0 votes
I too suffer from Expertitus, but eat humble pie often - 0.0% - 0 votes
I have no patience for this poll, I slipped doc Cipro in his coffee - 0.0% - 0 votes
I am living la vida loca or is it loco??? - 0.0% - 0 votes
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Posted 10/8/2011 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
I have discussed the merits of Twilight Zone like comparisons of PCa issues and treatments and outcomes.  It must be from another world, dimension or time...aka...'this cannot all be for real'?  This is heavier duty than fiction and could be run at a movie theater, forget the body snatchers or the thing....this one has more variables and defies all logic. Maybe  coming to a theater soon, hopefully not from Michael Moore  (LOL).

Limbo-Land many of us men are living proof of this area that is like something out of Alice In Wonderland.  You have an imperfect psa number, it can be influenced or controlled to some degree...but where are we?  Did we just see the Chess Board moves or are we talking to rabbits????

Now comes todays new vocabulary word in PCa  (LOL)-  'EXPERTITUS'

What is Expertitus?  As you can see by all the buzz about PCa, screenings, treatments, protocols, etc.  It is a generally non-cureable case of PCa type docs (and others).

'Expertitus'- a common ailment among a good number of docs envolved in PCa.

yeah  - Expertitus a common dilusional progression of 'know it all' syndrome which is usually uncureable but sometimes 'humble pie' scenarios have had positive effects upon those with this ailment, anecdotal cures are possible. It starts off with biased summary abstracts and influences upon the medical educational processes and the assumption that all diseases are simplistic and can be over trumped by 'man'. This is a high goal to aim for and could have altruistic initentions along the way, but can be easily railroaded by huge profits, drug companies, legal staffs or agendas from large institutions and brainwashing idealogies. How many will infact tell us hey we are still in the dark ages on PCa and we do not have all the answers?  Or here are the many options, I admit it is a coin flip and filled with unknowns, but please sign me up asap!

We don't know factually whom should get what treatment and when, or as to it being total science vs. some type of art form or s.w.a.g. scenario. One particular injection of patientitus ( patients with good questions and incite) armed with lots of questions can sometimes overide Expertitus into making more truthful statements and less definity on it all....just an observation.  I wonder if there are different types of Expertitus, probably has variants, Gleason grades, DNA ploidy and other factors influencing the genetic disposition of it all.  I will be working on a cure for it here in my garage (lol).

LET'S CURE EXPERTITUS IN OUR LIFE TIMES!!!!!!   (a humble pie bake sale is a start)

Posted 10/8/2011 1:47 PM (GMT 0)
I for one, won't participate in this poll, not unless you add a choice "not appropriate". In the nearly 3 years I have known you, you have managed to give out some good thought provoking ideals about tackling some difficult portions of dealing with PC, of which I am thankful.

However, for those same 3 years, you have been the spearhead of casting doubts on doctors, the medical profession, etc. You have caused more newcomers, in my opinion, to have doubts that didn't exist before, about the compentency of their medical staff. And for that, I feel you off a dangerous and harmful service, one that outweighs the good you do in your other posts. Doctor bashing doesn't belong at HW in my opinion.

It's foolish to come across that the patient is smarter than the doctor. If you are so clever, why didn't you go through the trouble to go through medical school. It's difficult to become a doctor, there may be some doctors that are better than other doctors, but there's no such thing as a "dumb" doctor.

Trying to get patients to second guess their doctors, their advice, and their decision is dangerous grounds in my opinion. The last thing a newly dx. person here needs to hear coming to hw, is not to trust their doctors. And all this talk of "firing" your doctor gets old after a while.  It sounds both foolish and arrogant in my opinion.

Remember, doctors have personal opinions too of smart-ass patients, non-compliant patients, and especially the new trend, the patient that thinks he's more than a doctor because they sit around looking up medical matters on the net. That hardly makes one a doctor, let alone an expert.

I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but I really don't care. You ought to think about the effect of what you are saying towards those new to disease and scourge, Prostate Cancer. It's ok to think outside the box, but the box is there for a reason.  Patients need to have trust and confidencce in their doctors, not doubts and second thoughts.

Sorry if you personally have had such a bad rap with doctors, if that is even the case.  Most of us have excellent relationships with our doctors and medical staff.

david in sc

Post Edited (Purgatory) : 10/8/2011 7:54:03 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/8/2011 2:30 PM (GMT 0)
My first urologist, in Danbury, CT, was (and remains) arrogant, self-absorbed and uncaring, yet he is also an educated and intelligent person. His refusal to diagnose (or even try to diagnose....he was too "busy") substantial pre-op pain and increasing difficulty in urinating led me to arrive at the hospital on the morning of my surgery, only to then discover that I had a substantial UTI, and that had I been operated on, I likely would have developed septicemia and died the next day.

So much for not having a healthy dose of skepticism and knowledge.

David in SC, you have every right to be cranky, as it seems to me you are here (in this post). I count myself among the legions here who support and pray for you. But while seeing your point, I most wholeheartedly disagree with it.

There may be no dumb doc's, but there are assuredly bad ones. I had one who nearly killed me simply because he didn't care. He was replaced with one whose skills and empathy have been exemplary. Indeed, it was only because of the second urologist that I learned that I also had a substantial hernia, repaired concurrently with the prostatectomy. Had I stayed with my first doc, I would have required a second surgery shortly after my first. No thanks!

There are 3 reasons we visit here: information; support and a desire to share and help others. Had I not learned to think independently and come to know that not all urologists walk on water, I today might not be alive. It was right here that my desire for knowledge and support were sated, as well as my new knowledge that we should never settle for a doctor simply because they are "convenient".
Posted 10/8/2011 3:19 PM (GMT 0)
I've only dealt with doctors that are specialists in the last 2 years. I may not be the best to comment. For 40 some years I didn't really know what a urologist and an oncologist were to be frank.

My first urologist could learn some social skills. He made me read my biopsy report. Didn't know what I was reading...real jerk that way...but, I think he was a good doctor otherwise. I say was, because I needed someone I could talk and strategize with so yeah...I fired him.

I believe that most doctors want to do the best for their patients. PC is difficult because there are so many options and so few tools in the toolbox.

I respect my current doctors. Will I get second opinions at times?...you bet. And, I guess that's not one of the options to vote. Will I try to learn more and ask doctors questions - yep. But, I still respect the ones I've run into.

Zufus is partly joking and appreciate his humor...God knows I need some humor.

Lately, I've been using a lot of those tools mentioned above. With the HT tool that I'm currently on --- does anyone have a screwdriver?...I seem to have lost mine.
Posted 10/8/2011 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
I believe waht Zufus is trying to tell us is to be our own advocate, do our own research and question our doctors. "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" We are usually so uninformed about PC at time of DX that the doctor, that has a little more knowledge than us, looks like an expert and his recommendations are flawless.
I went down that path for 10 years and found that the vast majority of doctors only have a superficial knowledge of PC. We see this all the time on this board when a patient with a high Gleason and a psa of over 50 has surgery only to discover that he is not cured or doctors putting patients on HT and only monitoring their PSA instead of doing full blood monitoring including "T" and other markers. Giving bone scans to patients that have a G6 and very low psa.
This isn't doctor bashing, but it points out that we all should take a more active approach in our treatments and question our doctors and put a lot of value in 2nd opinions and in our own research.
JT
Posted 10/8/2011 5:11 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with GTO and John T. My own observation is that experts of any kind tend to hide behind their status as experts. The more arrogant among them are those most likely to make an error or not admit to an error which is worse in my opinion. My own doctors have been quite good and appear to be well informed about PCa in general. My uro is a bit hesitant to embrace ideas outside of the "tried and true". He did not want to discuss DES with me at all and quickly dismissed the topic. My radiation onco is great. Takes all the time I want to discuss things and gives me guidance.

Zufus, I do appreciate your humor as it is a bit warped. A trait that I share.

Don

Posted 10/8/2011 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
I didn't expect my opinion to well like or accepted, nor was it a flame toward zufus. I respect his other posts on non-conventiional approaches. But, over a period of 3 years, I seen the theme i remarked about in my earlier post over and over again being portrayed, and I qualified almost every remark of mine with a "in my opinion". I speak for no one but myself.

And no, wasn't being cranky, just a subject I have a strong opinion about. I am still alive because of good doctors spread out over the past 31 years of my life.

david in sc
Posted 10/8/2011 9:53 PM (GMT 0)
No axe to grind with you Purg and support your side and will not even challenge your words and defend your right to say whatever and would say your journey is as a special case to say the least, I even like you, too. John T, GTODave, Don, Jerry L. et al have got a better feel for real or seemly unreal Zufus and his humor and questions about everything on medical experts. My mantra is simply question everything and all the time, few real experts in this exist. The beast is way to complex for all these simplistic protocols.

Hey some other kind of experts are now saying no value in psa testings or quick intervention to treat patients. Now they could be less than true experts, they believe they are experts and have some evidence to support there ascertians. If John T's journey doesn't define how lousy some of the 'experts' are in factuality, then you missed the point. Everyone claims to be an expert almost, certainly few deserve the title, but there are some that do (talking about doctors here Dave), not me as a patient...yeap I am probably dumber than dirt...but I do question everything and all the time and see plenty of reasons why it is valid, necessary and worth a patients while. GTODave learned a lesson that nobody should be placed into, this stuff goes on more than you know. Ohio States (aka- Andrew's) journey has plenty of docs whom were full of bias, agenda and even trying to railroad him, he is very pleased he took the time to question it all and has found much happiness in his informed options and real decisions and is living well. The bigger thing is he did it without insurance or alot of money. That is winning against many odds.

Post Edited (zufus) : 10/8/2011 4:54:57 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/8/2011 10:43 PM (GMT 0)
OS's journey without insurance or money in our day and age, has always been one of the most impressive parts of his journey in my opinion. I have been treated very well, almost first class at times, but good insurance makes me a favorable patient, like it does many others in that position.
Posted 10/9/2011 6:30 AM (GMT 0)
Bob, didn't your mom ever teach you not to throw rocks at a hornets nest. lol. p.s. fired three doctors Todd
Posted 10/9/2011 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
Todd, nope I was raised by wolves, perhaps you read about in the books (lol). Yes, been stung before and also kicked those winged little devils blanking booties and burnt out there nest before too (winning, tiger blood-LOL).

I am proud of you for firing docs and doing what is in your best choices and interests. I too have fired a few and have the notches on my belt and punch card holes in my insurance card and validated parkings all handled. Much to my delight and approaching 10 years of living more on my terms, instead of the money grabbing uro-docs terms. Have a great onco type doc the last 8 yrs. almost now. Huge differences in whom is worthwhile to see and be hired.
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