Dean Ornish diet ?

You should also consider suppliments like vit D and selenium. Don't forget the lycopene.

Renee,

Perhaps milking only free-range soys would be ok. Seriously, you are right, eating and what one likes/doesn't like is probably the most subjective subject of all. There is no right or wrong. What works for one, would be terrible to another. When I had the use of an oncologist dietician 10 years back, her main point was that people shouldn't totally sacrifice any particular food or group of food. She was all about smaller portions, leaner cuts of meats, using sweets as a sometimes treat (not obsessed like I can be), and learning to eat vegetables (amazed at how many men I personally know in RL that just won't eat vegetables or salads, literally just meat and potatoes).

Life is hard enough even on a good day, so why should someone make themselves miserable by denying or cutting off all of the things they love to eat as well. Eating "well" doesn't mean you can't ever have any of the "good" stuff. And eating well is good for the heart, the body, and the mind, no doubt, and for our general health as a whole. I just do not believe that it helps slow down or reduce cancer once you have it, nor do any of the cancer doctors I have ever had over the years. But that opinion doesn't take away from the general health values of a good and balanced diet.

David in SC

I am also skeptical and realize that I may be "grasping at straws" but have been giving the diet a try for a few weeks. I still haven't had a meeting with my urologist since my biopsy and I strongly suspect that he will share the views of most folks on the forum. (That it is too late for this.) Most folks on a competing forum tell me that at my age the only realistic option is a radical prostatectomy. I respect that opinion given that I'm sure most others have come to this decision after very careful consideration. I also realize, with great despair, that they are probably right. However, I don't want to be rushed into a decision. I would like to take perhaps a year and maybe investigate new procedures such as High Intensity Focused Ultrasound (HIFU).

Here are a couple of links to Ornish studies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaQSZjOEFmM

http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2005/08/5307/lifestyle-and-diet-may-stop-or-reverse-prostate-cancer-progression

I'm going into my 3rd week on an Ornish-style diet. I've also been using lots of tumeric and adding saffron (google "Dr. Oz" "saffron") to my green tea. It may very well be the placebo effect, but I get the sense that something is changing and last night was the first night in ages that I slept through the night without getting up once or twice.


Here's my question. Are these studies based on bad science, badly flawed or an outright hoax? Do you have reasons for that opinion? Has anyone here tried it properly during a watchful waiting period and found it to be unsuccessful? Has anyone found it successful? (I am not asking any of these questions rhetorically.)

Post Edited (Dreamboy) : 7/30/2011 4:48:49 PM (GMT-6)

Good luck to anyone who can maintain the Ornish diet. I understand his Prostate diet is similar to his heart diet. In the mid 90's I was having issues with blood lipids and read his book "Reversing Heart Disease". I got religion and went on the diet and made it a little over a year. I passed out one morning while getting out of bed to begin the day. That was the end for me. I did go from 172 lbs to 155 lbs. I am 6' and looked like a scarecrow. How did it do on the lipids? Cholesterol at the start 202. Finish 200. Don't recall the tryglicerides or blood glucose but the improvement was like the cholesterol. Within the error of measurment i.e. no change. Finally bit the bullet and went with the statins. Triple bypass surgery in May 1999. After that I decide to heck with the diet I will eat what I like when I want. Moderation is my guide.

Don

Here are two links about the Ornish diet and prostate cancer, from pubmed.

Both of the studies were done at UCSF, and co-authored with Dr. Peter Carroll who is the head of urology dept there, so these are legit. The second of the studies is free to read in full text; the first can only be viewed as an abstract unless you are willing to pay to purchase it.

Both of these studies were done on patients who were diagnosed with early stage prostate cancer who opted for "watchful waiting" , so they test whether the Ornish diet can SLOW the PROGRESSION of prostate cancer after it is diagnosed rather than prevent it. The evidence is pretty strong that they can. But note that the intervention is both a very low fat diet that most people would find hard to stick with, plus a host of other lifestyle changes (exercise, stress reduction, etc.) Notwithstanding those who say "you can't unring the bell" this research seems to indicate that dietary change causes the downregulation of certain genes which are involved in the progression of prostate cancer, so that while you can't "cure" the cancer with diet, you can slow down the doubling time and that can be crucial. There is other research on the Pritikin diet which comes to a similar conclusion.

Clinical events in prostate cancer lifestyle trial: results from two years of follow-up.
Frattaroli J, Weidner G, Dnistrian AM, Kemp C, Daubenmier JJ, Marlin RO, Crutchfield L, Yglecias L, Carroll PR, Ornish D.
Urology. 2008 Dec;72(6):1319-23. Epub 2008 Jul 7.
PMID: 18602144

Changes in prostate gene expression in men undergoing an intensive nutrition and lifestyle intervention.
Ornish D, Magbanua MJ, Weidner G, Weinberg V, Kemp C, Green C, Mattie MD, Marlin R, Simko J, Shinohara K, Haqq CM, Carroll PR.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2008 Jun 17;105(24):8369-74. Epub 2008 Jun 16.
PMID: 18559852

I think there are some reasons why diet may be more effective in prostate cancer than pancreatic cancer. Prostate cancer is strongly influenced by testosterone. According to books I've read such as "Foods that Fight Cancer", some foods such as soy and sweet potato have chemical compositions that are very similar to those of female hormones and these bind with the testosterone and neutralize some of their damaging effects (without any of the other side effects that female hormones would produce). It is also thought that red meat and saturated fats have the reverse effect and encourage testosterone.

I know that there may be an element of wishful thinking in my views but almost a 2 point drop in my PSA is encouraging. It will be interesting to see what my next PSA results show in 3 months.

With the benefit of hindsight, I don't think Steve Jobs did the right thing in delaying his surgery. His survival time ended up being shorter than the 10-year norm.

is 10 years the norm for pancreatic cancer?  i read a story that speculated that jobs' cancer was diagnosed too late and that he had a more treatable form of pancreatic cancer.  i re-read this thread and got a good laugh.  always consider the source and when it comes to diet i'd say you are a good source .

ed