Stimulation technique

A researcher in the area, is working locally with a group "that is trying to get one of the great apes to reproduce using either IUI or IVF. The first order of business is of course sperm retrieval and preservation." He asked if others had some advice.

I cannot help thinking this might have application to another, more familiar, member of the hominid Family - Homo sapiens.
---------------
In response to Dr xxxx's inquiry into collection of great apes.

We have had success collecting from smaller restrained primates (monkeys) with electro-stimulation of the penis. The major advantage is that you get a normal ejaculation and much better semen quality than using anesthetic and rectal probes. I suspect the great apes are not easily restrained for such a procedure, but if they could be, I strongly recommend this approach. The following is from our recent paper. (Mattison, D R. et al. 2011. Pubertal delay in male non-human primates (Macaca mulatta) treated with methylphenidate. Proc Natl Acad Sci 108:16301-6, 2011)

Semen Collection. At each time, semen collection was attempted from each test subject on four occasions within a 2-wk period, with a minimum of 1 d of rest between collection attempts. Semen collections were attempted in the normal restraint chairs used for blood collection, with additional restraint provided by the animal care staff, if necessary, to minimize stress on the test subject.

Semen was collected using penile electroejaculation. Initially, the penis was massaged from the sheath, followed by the use of a small vibrator for penile stimulation. Two strips (4 x 0.5 cm) of nonmetallic cardiac defibrillation pads were prepared and kept moist. One strip was wrapped around the base of the penis and the other just below the glans. The two electrodes from the Grass S88 stimulator were attached to the pad strips. The stimulator settings were 20 pulses per second, 18-ms duration, and 20-ms delay. The voltage was varied from 0 to 50 V (50 mAmp). Stimulation was applied at the lowest voltage and gradually increased over 90 s. A warm (37 C) glass scintillation vial with 2 mL of PBS was used to collect the semen. The head of the penis was held inside the vial opening to catch the entire ejaculate, which was immediately transported to the laboratory. The sample was viewed for the presence of a copulatory plug, which was removed from the specimen, if present. If no ejaculation occurred the animal was allowed to rest for approximately 1 min and the stimulation was repeated. If no ejaculation occurred within 10 min, the animal was returned to his cage.

xxxx x. xxxxx, Ph.D.
Reproductive Health xxxxxxx
National Institute for xxxxx [email protected]
Phone xxxxxxxx
--------------
Had I known of this technique before I was married, I would have never left my house.

I have all the equipment necessary to test this procedure (except for a prostate) and will gladly bring a unit if anyone would like to experiment at GFMPH.

Jeff - Anything for Science.


P.S. The mathematicians in the group will notice there is a minor discrepancy in the researcher's numbers, namely: either the pulses per second must be increased slightly (from 20 pps to 26 pps) or the pulse width or duration must be lengthened a total of 12 ms to force all three variables to agree. I have already requested clarification.

My two electric fence controllers have very different settings from the aforementioned application. The standard controller delivers about 5000 volts for about 100-200 ms every second. The higher powered, "weeder type", unit pulses every 2-3 seconds and can have a duration as long as 750 ms - long enough to burn off any blades of grass that happen to touch it. It peaks at about 8000 volts.

For a short while, I set up a 50,000 volt DC unit around my garden but the XX chromosome holder of the family made me take it down. She considered it unsafe for children. It was hard to argue with her when part of my morning routine included removal of carcasses.

I will have to experiment with my TENS unit. Who knows, I might get lucky.
Jeff

Hey Bud,

I'll admit it right now, despite my screen name, I do tend to have a rather sunny disposition.

That said, being prostateless, it's too late for me to ever get anything out of the above technique. But I see from your specs you have a chance of enjoying it. I can bring the unit to Baton Rouge GFMPH so those fortunate guys still packing prostates can give it a whirl. I'll bring spare leads.

_{(Pssst.... To the guys without walnuts..... Shhhhh... While those lucky dogs are plugged in, we can be eating their share of the crawfish boil.)}


Jeff

Lack of a prostate notwithstanding, will it produce the big O?

then there's the orgasmatron in the old woody allen movie.....

Why not open the hood, unclip the top of the distributor stick old thingy inside and get a friend to hit the ignition.
The Darwin Awards await.

[edit-- I see from other threads that Jeff has been working the TENS angle for a while. Maybe this will be interesting to others]

TENS units have been used in collection for many years (for men as well as other mammals). There are many distributors and "DIY sites" all over the Internet for TENS stimulation devices for human use.

re: the rest of the animal kingdom--- the VAST majority of collection techniques for mammals involve the "rectal probe" method mentioned above or an artificial vagina. Everyone in vet school and animal husbandry has to do this for all farm animals. Horses are usually collected with an artificial vagina, with a mare in estrus (called a "teaser mare"... nice!) nearby to get things going. If I recall correctly, bulls and a few other farm animals usually get the rectal shock probe. Dog breeders apparently use artificial vaginas or more frequently "manual collection." (ugh... I'll leave THAT to your imagination.) LOL

Jeff-- the TENS frequency/cycle settings are MUCH less important than the voltage and current. As you astutely discovered, their math was wrong... but for apes, it's obviously more difficult to ask them "which cycle setting works best." For humans, I'm sure tweaking the cycle settings is somewhat unique to the individual.

GOOD LUCK in your endeavors! Right now, I'm able to achieve an orgasm without any erection, although a firmer penis is much better. I tried a vibrator once early on and determined it was maybe just too intense (I used it before PCa, and it worked GREAT). I haven't tried it since, but will maybe soon.... again-- in the name of science! I should note that there is at least one manufacturer of a medical device (men's vibrator) for PCa rehabilitation-- Viberect by Reflexonic. It's been mentioned twice here recently.

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=2326267
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=2172788

Post Edited (NoMoProstate) : 3/14/2012 9:37:19 PM (GMT-6)

Without much more detail.... I was wondering if you used just the TENS or did you try EMS also (electromuscle stimulation)? I did a lot more research after you posted this. The EMS units are what make muscles twitch.

I found a patent on electrical stimulation via surgical insertion of electrodes next to two specific nerve bundles. Interesting stuff. Thought you might like:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN/4585005

What's done is DONE... said...
I have a spinal cord injury, I still have sensation, but it is decreasing more and more.

VERY timely... I'm not sure if you would consider a permanent electrode implant, but while I was looking through the patent info above, I also noted another patent for electrostimulation for orgasmic dysfunction. I actually remember seeing a story on a medical show about the use of a permanent implant next to the spinal cord. It was accidentally discovered my a surgeon who was using cord stimulation for a woman with chronic back pain. (TENS has normally been used for pain relief--it interrupts the pain signals in the nerves). It turns out that one of his implants got misaligned and excited a different nerve bundle. The woman indicated she had "intense pleasure in her nether regions."

I just found a news article on the accidental discovery:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=127280&page=1#.T2F4RdmwXSk

The patent indicates: "The present invention is indicated by orgasmic dysfunction in either men or women."
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN/6169924

I didn't look through it again, relative to spinal cord injury. When reviewing several patents though, I noted one mentioned its use for such patients. I would have to assume that if your injury is in the region they stimulate, it would be less likely to work.

"The range of electrode placement may range between about the eighth thoracic level (T-8) and the third sacral level (S-3), inclusive of the lumbar vertebra levels. The entry level for this preferred range would therefore be at about the third lumbar level (L-3). If necessary, a caudal approach may be taken.

A more preferred range of electrode placement lies between about the eleventh thoracic level (T-11) and the second lumbar level (L-2). An entry level of the third lumbar level (L-3) would be preferable for this range. The exact position of the electrodes, however, is variable and unique among patients and is determined more precisely at the time of implantation."

While I don't have much trouble getting erections I do have a lot of trouble having orgasms, thus I've been searching the web for help and I found this in a wiki article about nerves and orgasms:

Research has shown that women having had complete spinal cord injury can experience orgasms through the vagus nerve, which can go from the uterus, cervix, and, it is presumed, the vagina to the brain
I have thus been wonder if there is anything similar in men.

I note that the vagus nerve leaves the spinal column in the neck, so is that why rubbing a stiff neck feels so good!!!!

Alf

Is there any video along with this discussio ?

Jeff, reminds me of those videos we watched at first GFMPH of guy on treadmill.

I'm an electronics guy by trade and training and I design and build circuits, but I keep getting an image in my mind of charred and smoldering hot dogs whenever I contemplate experimenting with this sort of thing.

I want to thank everyone for their responses. Wow, that's a lot of information to review. I have a appointment next week with my Urologist and I will discuss the options with him. At this point I have lost interest in sex and have given up on obtaining even self pleasure.

I have no idea how I'm going to pull off giving a sample of semen for our future IVF Cycle. I'm sure the added pressure is not helping me. I wonder how long I can book the room where I give my sample? I should bring plenty to drink and my own **** videos, Hahahaha!