HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Cryoablation vs Cyberknife

Support Forums
>
Prostate Cancer
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 5/19/2012 1:55 PM (GMT 0)

Just diagnosed with Gleeson 4+3=7. Doc recommends Cryo over Cyberknife because of "insufficient" data with Cyber.  I'm told if Cryo doesn't work, you can still do radiation (Cyberknife) but if radiation doesn't work you cannot do Cryo. Have you evaluated one treatment over the other?  I'm leaning toward Cyberknife.  Thanks.

Posted 5/19/2012 2:14 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Mike:

Welcome to HW.  Sorry you have to be here but I'm sure you will find lots of good advice and good support from the fine people who frequent this forum.

First of all, it would be helpful if you would post more complete stats...perhaps in your signature like most of us have.  Things like number of positive samples vs. total samples, stage, PSA, % positive, your age and health, etc.  That will help us understand your cancer and help us give you better comments.

Secondly, I would suggest you do some reading on the subject.  There a couple of books I typically recommend: "Surviving Prostate Cancer by Dr. Walsh and "Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers" by Dr. Scholz.  This will give you a spectrum of perspective on prostate cancer.

Thirdly, I suggest you get your slides sent to a PCa expert pathologist like Dr. Epstein at Johns Hopkins or Dr. Bostwick at Bostwick Labs.  Reading PCa slides is an art as well as a science and you want to make sure you have the best reading you can get.

Now...in specific response to your questions, personally I'm not too crazy about either of the options you suggested.  Cyber-knife sounds promising but there is not too much long term data re cure rates.  Any cyrotherapy is likely to cure your cancer but it is also HIGHLY LIKELY to leave you totally impotent.  If I were you I would seek additional opinions both from a traditional surgeon and a radiation oncologist.  Depending on your total stats, you might be a candidate for brachytherapy which is minimally invasive, has high cure rates and less onerous side effects.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Tudpock (Jim)

Posted 5/19/2012 2:52 PM (GMT 0)
Mike...I think I researched every procedure available...how invasive...healing period...side effects...cure rates,etc.....and after doing all that I decided on CRYOGENIC surgery. I was operated on June 14 of last year. My only remaining side effect is the ED that still remains. Uro says that it can take up to 24 months to get the final results of any permanent side effects. If, after the waiting period, the ED is still there I plan to have the 3-pc.inflatable penile implant procedure. The CRYO surgery was a breeze...no big blood loss...virtually no pain...up and walking in a few hours...surgery took about 2 hours...I'd do it again if I had to.It's different for every person so what's right for me may not be right for you.Research all of it and choose the one that seems right for YOU.................good luck.....JOE
Posted 5/19/2012 3:17 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Tudpock and Icecat:
Thanks for your speedy reply. Obviously I'm new at this. Some additional information recommended by Tudpock is:
.diagnosed May 2012
.PSA 14 - up from 7 two months earlier
.2 of 12 samples each positive 4 + 3, one 5%, one 10% - (0 of 12 samples positive mid 2010)
.bone scan negative
.age 77
No treatment recommended until July due to cyscoscopy early May
Posted 5/19/2012 4:18 PM (GMT 0)
Mike,

I believe your doctor has it reversed. Cryo is the major salvage treatment after a failed radiation not the other way around. Cryo is effective, but also has the highest rate of ED of any of the treatments.

There are some good primary results from cyberknife, but as Tud said they are only 5 year results and PC is a disease that is noted for reoccurring after a few years.

At 77 surgery is eliminated, but either Brachytherapy (seeds) or IMRT (external radiation) should work well. With a psa of 14 and a G7 I would want a wide area coverage and only IMRT or IMRT combined with seeds could provide that. I would also combine a short course (6-9 months) of hormone treatment to the radiation as studies have shown that it significantly increased the effectiveness of radiation in G7 patients.

JohnT

Posted 5/19/2012 9:20 PM (GMT 0)
Mike... it's good having another elder statesman here....I'm 78...got you beat by one year! Seems lke the older we are when the PC demon bites us the more problems we have.And, even at my "advanced" age I don't want any ED issues gettin' in my way when the urge to merge flares up!
Posted 7/1/2012 3:07 PM (GMT 0)

I have now met with Dr. Aaron Katz, Chairman of the Department of Urology for Winthrop Hospital in Mineola, NY and Dr. Jonathon Haas, Director of Radiation Oncology at the same hospital.  Dr. Katz performs the cryotherapy (about 500 procedures) and Dr. Haas does the cyberknife procedure (about 2,000).  Both doctors appear to be extremely well qualified in their field.  I have decided on the cyberknife procedure for two reasons.  To me it seems less invasive, although the potential for negative side effects seems to be similar for both procedures.  Secondly, I like the idea of having a backup plan (cryotherapy).

The first step for CyberKnife is to have a body mold made to keep you in the same position for each of five (5) treatments.  That same day I am scheduled to have markers placed in the prostate. The following week I am scheduled for a CAT scan.  They usually also do an MRI at this time, but since I have a pacemaker, MRIs are prohibited.

The following week I am scheduled for five days of outpatient cyberknife radiation treatment, about an hour each day. That should be it.  Seven trips to the hospital for a total of about 10 hours of activity.

The cryotherapy is a single visit for a two hour procedure, followed by several days with a catheter.

During my consultation with Dr. Katz, the urologist, he thought it would be wise to get another PSA reading. The results of that test was a PSA of 11.6, down from 14 two months earlier.  The results included a comment that "free was 6.4%"  I never heard that term before and don't know its significance.

Posted 7/1/2012 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
Mike,

"free" would most likely refer to a test called "Free PSA". I'm don't have all the books at hand to describe it technically right now, so hopefully someone else can jump on with the definitions.

Posted 7/1/2012 6:57 PM (GMT 0)
Mike, congrats on your choice.  We don't have many cyber-knife folks here so I hope you will weigh in often to help increase our knowledge.

The "free' number was undoubtedly "free PSA"...a test that can be done along with the PSA test.  The lower the free PSA, the higher the probability of cancer.  6.4% is fairly low and indicates a high probability of prostate cancer.  Of course you already know that you have cancer so the free test doesn't really add much to your knowledge base.

Good luck.

Jim

Posted 8/16/2015 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
Hello Mitey Mike,
I'm replying to a couple of posts you made 2 years ago. Hope you are doing well. I saw you mentioned you met Dr. Katz in New York. My husband is scheduled to see him Tues and we are leaving tomorrow am. Can you give us any feedback or advice about our upcoming meeting with Dr. Katz. How was your experience with him?

(current draft signature, I need to shorten it before I can use it as a signature apparently)
Age 65 (8/15) Very Good health other than the below:
PCa Diagnosed 7/2013; Gleason 7 (4+3) Stage 1; 15% of one of 12 biopsy samples #7 positive.
PSA: 10/2008 3.5; 6/2010 4.4; 9/2012 9.5; 7/2013 8.6; 2/2014 7.1; 6/2014 9.7; 7/2015 8.5
Breast Cancer, IDC: R side, Diagnosed 7/2014, AJCC Stage IIB; TII; Nottingham Score: Grade 3; 100% estrogen receptive, Mastectomy Surgery 8/2014, clear margins, 1 of 3 nodes positive
Melanoma; L Shoulder, Diagnosed 6/2014 , Stage II; Surgical removal 8/2014, clear margins, clear nodes
Following Gerson juicing therapy (2 yrs since 7/2013) and Dr. Aaron Katz’s supplement and diet recos for the most part (over the last year).
Posted 8/17/2015 12:49 AM (GMT 0)
Gunsmokefan, this thread that you stumbled on is from 2012. Unfortunately, in looking at Mitey Mike's profile, it appears he has not signed on to the forum since 2012, so i doubt you will get a response from him.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply