Gat Goren Method

clap, lets hope at some stage that the NHS decide to investigate and determine exactly how effective the procedure is. I speak from my own experiences in that the improvement I have to date is acceptable as it stands and has made a difference to my day to day life. However, I still Hope for further improvement over the next few months. Yes, i have to agree with your comment about health services but i'm not sure about cost saving argument in this instance rather, I'd expect the usual about lack of clinical trials... still, you wonder why they are not investigating the claims for the procedure as Gat and Goren are educated eminent doctors with track record. To send an expert to Israel to look in and discuss the procedure with the doctors would cost peanuts on the grand scale.

Kirv, Ok, I can understand that some men will not want to openly divulge their little problem. BUT, i would have expected some men to have wanted to shout from the rafters as I have to help others in the same situation make decisions.. so, it's surprises me that there are no others publicly endorsing the procedure. I'm happy to publish any results appertaining to my procedure and even pay privately to undergo further tests to evaluate and compare before and as I am today in the hope that it will help others validate the effectiveness of the procedure. If it doesn't work in the long term, then I'll be the first one to broadcast it. I will try and get some of the others who have undergone the treatment to come onto the site and add to this topic.

PS is anyone able to compare and comment on the blood tests results in my previous threads which show changes from the original blood test results prior to the procedure.

Clap, No, it's not usual apparently although if any further capillaries open up to feed the prostate with the backflow from the kidneys then it is possible. As part of the procedure, they close the spermatic veins and on screen they can see capillaries diverting the blood to feed the prostate. They then close off those capillaries.

Gavrikon,

Sorry to learn of your dad's condition. There but for the grace of God and all that!!!

Cost is for you to decide on. If it was me, I would not hesitate in view of the potential relief and benefits the procedure could bring you. If it doesn't work then yes, it is a lot of money to loose, but it's nothing compared to the suffering that you could be looking forward to. As i've stated before, the procedure is not claimed to work for everyone.

Anyone having early stage PCa, should be aware that the procedure has been successful in
removing the PCa in 4 or 5 out of the six patients G/g treated and who had PCA. - don't quote me, but ask Dr Gat to confirn this as he says that he believes the Free testosterone to be be fuel food that allows PCa cancer to take hold and that by removing it you take away the fuel!

it is claimed by Dr's G/G that even if the prostate is removed, it is not dealing with the cause - the backflow and elevation in the prostate of free testosterone which he believes "feeds the cancer". So, in cutting out this flow of free testosterone, the results show ( and I know it's just a small number) a degree of success which to my mind needs exploring by the experts and consideration by anyone who may have early stages PCa. (Anyone with PCa should understand that this procedure does not work for every single patient).

Lucky you having a young blond wife! Regarding retro grade, I'm on tamsulosin ? and another which I can't remember and I do get some retro grades or diminished cum, but had I had opted for a TURP then I could have been looking what I considered to be more severe and unwanted side effects. I'd agree, we have to keep wives and girlfriends happy... even at our ages.... is this what they mean by dirty old men? haha.

Now, I think i mentioned in my last post a slight regression, well a week later, there has been improvement which has increased my flow strength.. it's funny, I get the odd time when things appear to regress and then a few days later i see a step forward... so, I'm still on the way , still more than happy with the result to date and still expect to see improvements as I am only four months in.

One other thing, Andy, alfusozin was tested on a large French population and caused virtually no retrograde ejaculation. I think that is important for anyone contemplating an alpha-blocker to consider. I've also noticed (coincidentally, perhaps) an increase in the frequency, duration and firmness of morning wood since I began taking it.

Glad to hear that you are progressing Andy.

Have been taking Alfusozin for nearly 3 months now. Can't say any real improvement. Erections may be stronger. Frequency unchanged and quantities don't seem to have got larger.

Tamsulosin actually made me feel better when peeing.

Anyway, will have to wait until six months are actually 'up' to make any valid conclusions about Alfozosin.

Have a great day.

Like all guys with PC, I am always looking for a different methodology that makes sense and has less side effects.

I am still struggling to find the attractiveness of this solution. Flying to India to be treated with an experimental approach, laying out $16,000 dollars, plus airfare, lodging, etc, for results that from what I see on this thread are dubious at best. The statement of 4 or 5 out of 6 treated raises a host of questions, such as number of patients treated, is 70 or 80 % cure rate stated after a year, 5 years, or 10 years ?

Comparing that to surgery or radiation which is covered by most if not all insurance plans, regulated by the FDA, etc, in a US hospital, with success rates somewhere around 90 %, with millions of patients, studied for many years, certainly makes me feel warmer and fuzzier.

What am I missing ?

Goodlife

Guys, as best I can tell the GG stuff is for BPH, not PCa. The subject is technically off topic for our board, but hated to send these folks packing, since they suffer common problems, and are closer to PCa than some of the stuff that shows up here.

The clinic is real, but as the posters have mentioned, it is experimental at best.

Let's keep these lines of communication open in any event. I like others hope to hear more information, results, feedback, or whatever input from anyone who has any experience with the Gat-Goren method or treatment. ANDY, I hope you will answer my previous question as to how you know the GG treatment you received appeared to benefit you, as opposed to the effects of the drugs you are taking. Someone asked about radiation levels...was that question ever answered> Please continue to write in. I am most grateful for this board and the sharing of thoughts and experiences. Andy, can you put me in touch with others who have tried the GG treatment?


Thank you.

verikon at cox dot net

(e-mail addresses should be placed in the profile at avoid harvesting by spammers. Address has been "obscured" a bit, but I suggest you remove it - 142)

Post Edited By Moderator (142) : 8/26/2012 8:48:33 PM (GMT-6)

First of all, thanks Andy for sharing your experiences with us. I have had an enlarged prostate for about 15 years. about 10 weeks ago I underwent the XPS 180 watt greenlight here in the US for the enlarged prostate. For about 5 months prior to that I was using flomax .4 mg per day (actually the generic version tamsulosin). about 30 months ago I had the TUMT procedure to widen the urethra with a microwave. Three months prior to the TUMT I had used the flomax as well. Prior to my Greenlight I did everything I could to avoid the surgery, but I got to the point where the flomax stopped working and I was experiencing retention on a nightly basis. A shot of whisky and a ten minute walk generally got me urinating but I had catheters on hand and used them a half dozen times. I reviewed the Gat Goren method and it seemed promising, but Medicare paid for the Greenlight, and I wasn't keen on leaving the country. Prior to the Greenlight I had a PSA of 6.3, but after researching I decided to use watchful waiting. I wouldn't address it unless/until I had specific symptoms and / or my PSA was over 10. At 66, a slow moving PC has a low chance of being fatal. So I decided to only address an aggresive one, if it should come up. My urologist was trained in Greenlight to leave a bit of tissue just above where the ejaculate enters the urethra, which directs the ejaculate out the penis instead of into the bladder. He claims his patients don't get retrograde ejaculation, and he was correct. I didn't. Here's some things I learned about my own condition.
1. The flomax only worked for 4 to 5 months for me, then became innefective.
2. The TUMT only worked for 12 months.
3. The recovery from the Greenlight was about 10 weeks. The pain and burning was horrific for the first 7 weeks, but is fine now.
4. I had a very large prostate - 120 grams. about a third of it was protruding into my bladder. My doctor said it was full of pus, indicating long term chronic prostatitis as well. He used up 2 greenlight tips. The procedure took 70 minutes, in his office surgical suite, under "twilight anesthesia".
5. Before the procedure I was getting up 5 to 6 times a night and experiencing retention for 10 minutes or so in the early morning hours. I was also only going a few ounces each time. Now I am getting up 2 to 3 times a night and going about 4-8 ounces at a time with a very good stream.
6. One of the things I was looking into was the injection of NYMOX-1207 and/or injection of Botox into the prostate. Both of these procedures kill prostate tissue and have been in trials here and abroad for nearly a decade. They report 1 to 3 years of results equivalent to taking flomax with a single round of injections. No side effects have been reported. However after 10 years of trials, neither has been submitted to the FDA for approval. Why? I have no idea. I have a feeling that if Gat Goren came to the US, it would suffer a similar fate, years and years of trials without being submitted for approval.
7. The whole problem of BPH and or PC is an enormous one, but medicine is a business, and it's practitioners all march in lock step to avoid liability. In the US there are 100,000 deaths a year due to hospital infections and another 100,000 due to drug interactions (legally prescribed drugs only). There is zero liability for anyone involved, because standard procedures have been deemed to have been followed. I'm pretty sure the family of the deceased still has to pay the medical bills for the procedure that killed the patient. But doctors continue to claim the decades of FDA trials are for our protection.

Post Edited (Bob_NJ) : 9/6/2012 4:51:07 PM (GMT-6)

Hello,

My name is Yoav and I live in Israel.
I have been suffering from BPH for about 10 years.
Tried few medications that helped but with some side effects.
My first visit to Gat Goren clinic was around January this year when I met with Dr. Gat who explained their research and procedure to overcome BPH.
To make sure I'm a candidate for the procedure Dr Gat asked me to ultrasound test for Varicocele which I did and found I did suffer from it.
May 30 2012 I have passed the procedure that took about 2 hours while I was fully awake and just had a simple local anesthesia.
Since then my free T went up 50% with some (10%) decrease later, PSA went down to around 2.8 and most promising, today I've been ultrasound tested for prostate size which showed remarkable shrinkage from around 75cc to around 43cc ! I'm still using Xtral XL and while doing so I have one night visit to the bathroom.
I'm only 4 month after the procedure and I understand it may take time to get better results.
I have also consulted with few urologists that did not believe this procedure may solve BPH problem. As I understand (told by one doctor), if Gat Goren procedure will be adopted some doctors will have to look for another job . . .

Let me know in case you need any clarifications.

Yoav.

Hello yoav, Thanks for the input.

Bob, the G/g procedure is alleged to deal with the cause. The surgical procedures, the effect. I understand everyone's concerns but sometimes you have to grab the bull by the horns, weight up the pro's and con's and make the decision.

I made the decision, yes there were risks, yes it meant me digging into my pocket and yes the procedure is not considered mainstream. BUT, like Yoav and others, the risks have appeared so far, to have paid off. In five years, we'll see - if it fails then I can always go down the surgical route.

Please bear in mind I'm no doctor so I may have this and G/g theory wrong, but my understanding is that with greenlight, the prostate can still enlarge. the reason appears to be that the free testosterone - said by G/G to be the cause of prostate enlargement and possibly Pca - is still backflowing into the prostate faster than the prostate can clear it. It is also suggested that the free testosterone may be reason for PCa - 4 out of 6 people treated (i know this is a small number) of people who underwent the procedure and who had PCa, saw the cancer go away.

The reason I came onto this and other forums is to bring to people attention that the G/g procedure deserves support and investigation.

Incidentally, if anyone wants to give my name out to anyone who needs to speak to someone who has experienced the G/G procedure, i'm happy to share my experiences.

Hi Andy,
Thanks for your reply. I guess we will have to wait and see. But it's good to know G/g is an option, even if it requires travel and expense. Things move so slowly in this area despite millions of people being affected. But it's true of medicine in general. I sometimes think we haven't really advanced much past the shaman healers of primitive tribes. But then Dr. McCoy on Star Trek probably gave us a false sense of what the future held for us.
Regarding, Vigara. It doesn't work well for me because it desensitizes me. It's like wearing a steel condom for me. I like the Cialis better (half a 20 mg. pill) although it seems to work better the second day with a second half pill. I would say it only works as advertised about 25% of the time for me.

The procedure is shown on youtube as:

"New BPH treatment: Prostate arteries embolization"

It was performed in Spain. It looks like the ball is rolling!

I don't know if links are allowed, but the youtube one is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMt1LiPzBvE

Bob

andyaction said...
a breakthrough.... The UK National institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) has just undertaken and may be still undertaking a procedure consultation on prostate artery embolisation for BPH. This is the closing of blood vessels that take blood to the prostate via the groin, to block the blood supply to the prostate so it shrinks. (as they do in the Gat Goren method).

HOORAH!!!!!!!!!!!