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Posted 9/9/2012 9:44 PM (GMT 0)
I know this is a topic that is talked about all the time, but on another site that I subscribe to one of the men mentioned how he feels like a part of him as been taken away, less of a man since he now has dry orgasms. Can you try to explain this to me? In comparison, I as a woman, had my tubes tied after our last baby, so I cant reproduce anymore, once PCa surgery men can't reproduce anymore. It seems to me that this hits the male ego in a way that having tubes tied just doesnt effect women. Is this about reproducing or is there something else that I am not getting either?
Posted 9/9/2012 10:05 PM (GMT 0)
Susan

No its not about reproduction.

The entire ED thing is yes something has been taken away from me.

Due to the HT's that keep me alive - I have no desire.

So work up the desire, with MUSE have a erection. But that seems wrong - to use the MUSE.

Have penetration, but no orgasm. Well a orgasm but not like was. It feels wrong to me, lacking greatly.

The sensation of my orgasm inside my wife is lost to her - and I can tell that.

This is the lady I've been with for over 40 years now. I feel like I'm disappointing her - even though she tells me all is ok and we cuddle nice and naked.

So yes a part of me has been taken away, at first I did think that makes me less of a man. Took me some time to get over that.

Hugs

Bud

We will beat this crap
Posted 9/9/2012 10:07 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,

I probably can't explain it, but I can only guess that it is a societal misconception that boys start picking up when they first start to mbate. We are led to believe, or we convince ourselves that the semen is what women really want, and that it is a sign of real manhood of how much we can produce.

**** flicks seem to try and convince us that women like it all over their faces, and other places. Men who have vasectomies, don't seem to have a problem with diminished volume, or the fact that they are sterile.

I can only speak for my own experience that my spouse really isn't all that fond of the mess, and she doesn't really feel it when it is ejaculated. What is important to her is the closeness to me, and her own orgasm. Of course she wants to make sure I am satisfied as well.

Hopefully you can continue to make your husband feel that you are more than satisfied with dry sex, and continue to remind him that he is your man, no matter what the result of the sex is.

Even tho it won't help him in this regard, he also needs to be reminded how lucky he is to be able to get erections and have sex, and that he has a wonderful woman to love him and try to please him. Many men on here have total ED, or are single, or whose partner is not interested in sex like they once were.

I think time will work a lot of this out if you keep on loving him the way you do.

Goodlife
Posted 9/9/2012 10:53 PM (GMT 0)
There's more than not being able to reproduce. The prostate is very involved in male orgasm. Without a prostate or one that's been damaged by radiation treatments the whole sex thing feels very different. Having your tubes tied didn't affect how you experienced sexual pleasure - just as a man who has a vasectomy doesn't have a change in sexual response.

Take away the prostate and things that a man use feel during sex change - even the ability to have an orgasm is sometimes not there. Then the whole ED thing changes sexual response, desire and many of the things that use to define what our sexual identity was when we were before PC and when there was a functioning prostate.

There is no real male to female comparison on this but the feeling of loss isn't due to not being able to reproduce but rather in the change in how our bodies respond to the sexual experience. The wet/dry thing is just one of the aspects. Some that has been new for me is that while I am most often able to obtain an erection some times I don't have an orgasm or at best have one that feel the way it use to. Then there is the problem that with me often obsessing on my own problems I feel like I fail to please my wife.

This is a difficult thing to explain but it's more than just a male ego thing - our bodies have been changed, part has been taken away and the parts that are left don't function like they use to.
Posted 9/9/2012 11:01 PM (GMT 0)
I appreciate the open honest answers, I am just trying to learn and be able to understand more.
Posted 9/9/2012 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,

It is very hard to explain, it certainly is not about reproduction. It is all about how men a wired.

As you know there are two parts to sex, mental and physical. A male's physical is much more obvious than a female's. Males as teenagers experience nocturnal erections and wet dreams. Nocturnal and morning erections are part and parcel of being a male.

Suddenly either after surgery or HT you find that your natural male instincts are gone, no erections, no "wet" orgasms or even no orgasms at all. It is very hard psychologically on most normal men.

From my experience as a result of HT I have absolutely nothing, I do still have some libido but the pills don't work, and I am petrified of injecting myself. It is very depressing and difficult coping with this and the diagnosis of PC.

I am sure that only suffers of PC fully understand the feelings and frustration, I have been married over 40 years and I know my wife doesn't understand or appreciate what you are going through.

Hope this explains a little for you.
Posted 9/10/2012 12:04 AM (GMT 0)
but on another site that I subscribe to one of the men mentioned how he feels like a part of him as been taken away, less of a man since he now has dry orgasms.

maybe the dry orgasm is a constant reminder of the "new" normal and the hell we go through to get there, or else the guy is just insecure cool .

ed

Posted 9/10/2012 12:28 AM (GMT 0)
-others have said similar things and it is definitely due to how men are "wired" - women are more emotionally stimulated regarding sex/ love and the whole darn thing... men are more visually stimulated ( hence the dirty magazines, videos, creation of the internet ( see Avenue Q)... and one aspect of success in sex / lovemaking is what we can produce - and when that is removed or lessened - the dry orgasm - the shorter penis - impotence - lack of libido - we suffer -

-with some they can rewire themselves to focus more on the woman and her needs than themselves - or have the whole experience being foreplay circumvetting penetration and ejaculation - making the whole body a sensual experience -

-I am sorry your hubbie feels like he is less than a man - he ain't - he has the guts and the balls to face his cancer straight on and do his best to conquer it.

-he is blessed by having a loving understanding companion / spouse to be by his side- for richer or poorer in sickness and in health....

-hold him tight tonight and tell him how much you love him and and don't let him go until you get the answer he needs to tell himself - "he loves himself"....


heavy handed hugs,
Bronson
Posted 9/10/2012 2:03 AM (GMT 0)
Susan,

Thanks for bringing up this subject. I am almost 8 weeks out from surgery and we had my first orgasm the other night. Although she had to take things by the hand, we found it still works.

First dry orgasm, we thought it was great. No fuss no muss!

When we decided to have the surgery, we knew that sex would never be the same. The trade off, we felt was worth it. We still love each other, that hasn't changed.

F8 said it well that it is the "new normal".

I was prepared to never have sex again, if it was God's will.
Thank you Lord!

When I got sober 23 years ago, they told me "The only thing you have to change is EVERYTHING!"
I did change everything and my life has been so much better because of it.

That was the attitude I had with PCa. My uro told me that your life will not be the same from now on. So, here I go again with a life changing experience.

As Bronson said, your husband has fought cancer. You love him for that. He needs to love himself for that.

Hugs coming you way,
Bill
Posted 9/10/2012 2:11 AM (GMT 0)
Susan,

It's just different. Hard to describe the difference. Only time they felt the way they do now was a long time ago when I was, for a brief period, on a medication that caused retro-ejaculations. Definitely not as satisfying, just like now.

Maybe think of the difference between a dry cough and a "productive" one. Maybe with the latter, you think to yourself, "well, now, we're getting somewhere...". They are both coughs, but different.

Also, after having ~50 yrs * 52 wks/yr * one/two per week = several thousands of orgasms that felt one way, then all of sudden, they feel another way -- still orgasms but different -- perhaps the body just needs time to adjust to the new normal.

Different strokes for different folks, and all that, but let's not talk details!

Robert
Posted 9/10/2012 3:43 AM (GMT 0)
I'll be blunt, but it's how I feel.

It's the loss of exchange of bodily fluids.

It's just not the same.

Posted 9/10/2012 3:50 AM (GMT 0)
Trying not to be too graphic here. But getting a woman excited has always excited me; and it's still true, even though some of my parts don't work as well as they used to. There is a rush, whether it is mine or my partner's, and regardless of how we got there or who got there. But from my male perspective, it has nothing to do with fertility, or biological reality; it is really all about that endorphin rush that we all know is out there--even though we only get to experience it first-hand sometimes when we look for it--and when we're lucky.
Posted 9/10/2012 9:03 AM (GMT 0)
Susan - you mentioned you had your tubes tied - replace that thought with "breasts removed" and it might be a little clearer for you. Course we hope that never happens...

Many people associate the female breast to "femininity." Once removed - you in theory don't feel as feminine.
Posted 9/10/2012 11:20 AM (GMT 0)
Susan,
I don't find it all that big a deal, and believe me, continuing my sex life was the main reason for the course that I ultimately chose. I continue to have a great sex life that is in some ways even more intense than before. The dry part ( and it is not totally dry) is odd, but not really unnerving for either me or my partner. I suspect that if I could not perform, it would be a different story. I hope that I never have to face that one.
Posted 9/10/2012 1:28 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,

My wife and I have been married for 41 years and up until June 6, 2011 the last time we had normal sex we had a great and active sex life that we mutually enjoyed. My wife had early menopause in her early 40's but that didn't really damper her desire. With our kids grown up I think some of our best sex was after my wife went through the change. Because of the meds I take for hypertension I was using Viagra for the the last 3 or 4 years successfully but it did rob some of the spontaneity of the love making as we had to plan when and where because of the inconvenience of taking an expensive pill an hour before hand.

On June 6th, 2011 I told my wife that this maybe was the last time we have intercourse for the rest of our lives and she told me she could live without sex but not me and I believed her and loved her support. Now over a year later nothing works except injections for me which really takes away any spontaneity from love making. The injections work but a "Dry Orgasm" is nothing like before and no where as pleasurable. My erect penis size is also considerable smaller than before and I have very little feeling when the shaft penetrates or when my wife touches me. I also have that dreaded fear of overdosing and the trip to the ER in my mind which I think effects my love making. My wife keeps telling me it is OK she can live without sex but she has told a friend of hers that she really misses sex and our love making which makes me feel a lot less of a man and I really miss the physical part of what we had.

So to answer your question I do feel like a part of me was taken away and I am pissed and now wish I had looked more at treatments other than RALP, but its too late to do anything about it so I have to live with what we can have now. I know you and your husband are a lot younger than my wife and I and the thought of losing all those great sex years we had in our 40's and 50's is hard to fathom.

Posted 9/10/2012 2:19 PM (GMT 0)
Susan.
Yes, "dry" is different, a dry orgasm is simply not 100% of the event: ejaculation was by definition part of an orgasm.

While my wife said just last week that she doesn't miss the taste, feel or smell of semen at all, even she said that she misses seeing what I will describe as the "fountain".
Finding it hard to explain. Have yet to think of the right analogy. What do I think of....

Strawberries and cream without the cream
Alcohol free champagne, or perhaps a glass of champagne that's been left around for too long and has no bubbles in it.
Potato chips without salt
A silent electric car but one that looks like a V8 muscle car
Chocolate-chip cookies without the chocolate chips
Nicotine patch instead of a cigar? (I'm a non smoker)
Watching a movie and leaving two minutes before the end.

I'll try not to be too explicit, but I find the trick is to try to have sex in such a way that the orgasm occurs during penetration so that we/I can't actually see the absence of ejaculation. So I guess that means partners have to help a guy have a lot more intercourse and then he won't have desire to m&s&urb&te so he won't see any dry orgasms.
Posted 9/10/2012 2:40 PM (GMT 0)
Alf,

You forgot one:

Fish without chips smhair

Terry

Posted 9/10/2012 3:13 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,

My point of view is a little different.

I lost the nerves (literally), and had/have no expectation of anything happening without my friend the Trimix needle. Being single, at first I was with the girlfriends from my "previous life". They tried to help, and yes, believe it or not, I can have an orgasm that is as good or better than anything I had before, with two exceptions. It is dry, and limp. Over time the girls dumped me, explaining that I was broken, and they were not interested anymore.

That will take a chunk out of your ego.

Since then, I have found, or my friends have set me up with, two personalities of women. First, the ones who really do not want sex anymore, and run when I bring up the idea of experimenting with the trimix (they really just want a neutered old man to take them to dinner and pay the bills, from what I have seen). Second, the ones who think that they are going to help save me, but give up and run when they realize that my PCa is not the "good cancer".

Does a dry orgasm bother me? Not in the least. Its all the rest that kills the ego and leaves me finally willing to go do the HT my oncologist is hounding me to start.

Maybe I'll meet a cute girl at the BOGO shoe sale, and we can go to chick-flicks together  smilewinkgrin

Posted 9/11/2012 3:20 AM (GMT 0)
Susan,

I think you can rule out the reproduction aspect. The analog of your getting your tubes tied would be for a man to get a vasectomy. Men who get vasectomies are rarely troubled by feelings of inadequacy because of it. They are shooting blanks, to be sure, but the muzzle flash and the report are the same and the kick feels right. Not a problem, generally.

Having your prostate removed, on the other hand, is a different matter. It's like trading in your .45 for a cap gun. There are no bullets, but what's more, there is no flash and distressingly little bang. The gun feels cheap, insubstantial and plasticy in your hand. And there is the darnable red spot on the end of the barrel so that everyone knows it is just a toy.

I am afraid that very little of my religious training has stuck with me over the years but I do seem to remember the definition of a "sacrament." It is "The outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace" or at least that was the definition used by the Episcopal church in the 1960s. It is very difficult to explain the sacrament of ejaculation to a woman, or why men seem to be so obsessed with it. Ejaculation is the tangible, visible, external and sharable marker for a lot of things that are going on in a man's body, in his head, and in his relationship when he has sex. When you husband complains about his dry orgasms he isn't just talking about the occasional squirt of odd-smelling goo, he is feeling cut off from all those other facets of his sexuality as well.
Posted 9/11/2012 6:34 AM (GMT 0)
Very interesting conversation! Thanks for posting the topic, Susan!

My hope is that one day my husband and I get to see what any of this feels like. So far, none of the pills have worked.
Posted 9/11/2012 10:40 AM (GMT 0)
"Very interesting conversation! Thanks for posting the topic, Susan!

My hope is that one day my husband and I get to see what any of this feels like. So far, none of the pills have worked."

 

I agree with MsWorry Wart.  However, Ron has had some success in the shower.  However, with having two surgeries since the removal of his prostate, our situation isn't "normal".  Yes, I do miss sex, but I am so happy to be sharing my life with him.  We haven't totally given up...just postponed trying again.

It is interesting reading the perspective of our brothers and their internal feelings.  Thank you, gents!

Posted 9/11/2012 11:43 AM (GMT 0)
I do not mind at all sharing my experiences in this forum even the most intimate details as that's what we do, help others from the experiences of ourselves. I think the issue of ED from PC is the hardest on our younger guys and gals. If I was 10 or 15 years younger when diagnosed with the ED I have now, I think I would be considering going the penile implant route. The implant still will not fix the dry orgasm problems but the few I know with them say they work better than injections when it comes to spontaneity. There are some risks from implants surgery like infections but for guys with no hope this is a good alternative. I do have one friend with an implant that had a BCR a year after his implant and is now on HT with no libido or desire to use the implant. I do agree with the comment that dead men do not have sex, so I am lucky in that department and will not complain.

Terry

Posted 9/11/2012 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
I would think that "not being able to produce" would be more of a PC SE concern then  "not being able to reproduce". After my 12 months of chemical castration, my first two sexual enteractions were very(and I mean VERY) emotional and I still don't think I'm back to full capacity. yeah
Posted 9/11/2012 7:54 PM (GMT 0)
Susan--age 70 and married 46 years-my wife is still my best friend and lover. With imrt and Lipton sex is a fond memory.I'm alive and that's good enough for both of us. Bill
Posted 9/12/2012 5:23 AM (GMT 0)
Welcome gunfighter!   I do agree with those stating age can be a factor in how ED is handled (or just experiencing an orgasm).  We had almost 38 years of great lovemaking.  How fortunate we were!
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