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Posted 10/10/2012 1:49 AM (GMT 0)
I know not PCa related, but PCa has forced all of us to think of this one way or another.

I'm not religious so definitely not trying to offend anyone, just find it interesting considering the source.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/eben-alexander-harvard-neurosurgeon-proof-of-heaven-afterlife-coma_n_1951475.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
Posted 10/10/2012 2:07 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for sharing. Just received Newsweek today. Surprised at cover. I do believe, but looking forward to reading it.
Posted 10/10/2012 2:12 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks. 

Didn't see the science I was looking for. 

Like the last sentence of the article says, a good drug trip could replicate this guy's experience.  Not sure why this gets the cover of Newsweek, other than to sell magazines.

Posted 10/10/2012 2:34 AM (GMT 0)
 I agree with Dave 7

I'm also not sure why this should be in HW

Mel

Posted 10/10/2012 12:00 PM (GMT 0)
This is borderline for the rules on religion and doesn't have a PCa connection, so I tend to agree with Mel. I left it because you do have to willfully decide to go read it by clicking the link.

If anyone has concerns, email me. I'll check back later today on it.

Posted 10/10/2012 12:13 PM (GMT 0)
Many times we rely on hope that we have defeated this cancer. Some of us may one day face advanced PC when all say there is no cure, just contain or maybe some other disease. For those of us who believe like David E. and others, hope of what we believe will make our last journey less fearful. So yes, I see this relevant to PC and any other deadly disease on HW.
Posted 10/10/2012 12:35 PM (GMT 0)
I see this more as a metaphysical question than a religious one: what comes after death? Human beings, and certainly the terminally ill, have wondered about that for as long as there have been human beings.

I would think that a person could be atheistic and still accept the possibility that in dying we pass on to some other level or dimension of existence. That doesn't, in and of itself, require a "god" or a religion. It might just be the way things work. Some may hold firmly to the conclusion that death ends everything, and that's fine, but others may feel differently.

I, like others, don't see why this individual's account is getting so much press. There have been many, many similar reports from individuals who have "died," including my own grandmother.

My personal hope is that death is just some sort of transformation, but I really think one need not accept a religious interpretation of reality to believe in that possibility.

If anyone dealing with cancer, or any other major physical illness, hasn't given some thought to what will happen after they die, please raise your hand. It's a concern, and it can be a lot more nerve wracking than, for instance, fretting about the pain of a biopsy procedure.
Posted 10/10/2012 12:37 PM (GMT 0)
Montee:

Frankly, I think some topics are even more relevant, to wit:

Healthcare/ObamaCare, whatever you want to call it and

Getting drugs from pharmacies abroad.

These topics apparently violate the rules. Certainly the first topic has been a flashpoint for the expression of strong political convictions.

Invariably, threads containing the above end up getting locked, either because they violate the rules a priori or because the discussion gets heated (therefore violating the rules).

The only topic more incendiary than politics is religion. Just as in politics, many of us have strong beliefs (including non-beliefs) in this area.

Incidentally, such topics as supplements and local vs. expert doctors also get locked quite often. They are relevent to PC, but again opinions seem to get quite strong on the issue.

Mel

Posted 10/10/2012 12:43 PM (GMT 0)
DavidG - Thank You for posting this link. For those of you that don't believe or are offended, don't click on the link.

As far as not meeting the rules of this forum with respect to religion - I see NO issue whatsoever - here is the rule as stated in "Forum Rules":

6. No posts of copyrighted material, lengthy articles, or posts of an overtly political or religious nature.

IMHO I don't see posting a link as DavidG did to be "overtly religious" and in all due respect to the Mod's I see no reason to delete.

I agree strongly with Montee - hope of what we believe will make our last journey less fearful - I didn't see anything in the link that mentioned a God, in fact, each of us is free to believe what we want to with respect to what happens after death. So then "heaven" is to each of us what we believe, or not believe. Whether we die from or with PCa I would be surprised if any of us out here never thought about death. Therefore, what happens after death IS relevant to this forum.

Peace.
Posted 10/10/2012 12:51 PM (GMT 0)
Sorry Yoop:

But discussion of heaven and an afterlife is indeed overtly religious.

How can this not be religious?

One does not have to specifically use the word "God" to make a point overtly religious.

Mel

Posted 10/10/2012 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
Mel, my take on this is simply "heaven" can mean to each of us whatever we want and it does not have to be associated with religion. Have you not ever heard people make statements like "that Tiramisu was simply heavenly?" I don't believe they meant it to be associated with religion. The online Free Dictionary includes a number of definitions for 'heaven' including "1. The sky or universe as seen from the earth; the firmament. Often used in the plural." Yes, it also includes a religious connotation, but not solely.

Those that believe certainly equate heaven to religion and those that don't believe associate it with what they believe. As was mentioned many have had the same type of "visions" by eating mushrooms back in the day and I don't think for a minute it included thoughts of religion - but rather their own eurphoria!!!

Sorry if I offended you or others - we are each entitled to our opinion and if I came off too strongly it was not my intent - however my intent was/is to have my own opinion heard with the others.
Posted 10/10/2012 1:46 PM (GMT 0)

compiler said...
Sorry Yoop:
But discussion of heaven and an afterlife is indeed overtly religious.

How can this not be religious?

One does not have to specifically use the word "God" to make a point overtly religious.

Mel

Well, discussion of what happens after we die does not have to have an inherent religious basis. If you believe that Einstein was correct in that all energy that exists was present at the moment of creation of our universe, and that energy does not "go away" or otherwise disappear but rather simply takes different forms then the energy that constitutes our earthly being has to go "somewhere" in some form or fashion after we die. What that is we don't know but it arguably can be the basis for a "non-religious" view or belief in some form of "life" after death.

Now I am not a scientist and I am sure that others will post to correct my misinterpretation of Einstein (if I have done so) but I am an amateur scientist/space theorist and have been all my life. I read books on astronomy, space and physics for recreation for enjoyment. I am also a religious person as well but I have never worried about a conflict between science and religion because to the extent we are able to understand how things work, that is part of our "original" design. What some call religion others call science. I have no problem with either, and I enjoyed the posting of the link.
Posted 10/10/2012 1:52 PM (GMT 0)
I don't presume to speak for those who are atheistic, but how is it "religious" to report an after-death experience, or to suggest that death may not be the end of our existence.

I've never understood atheism to require a belief in the termination of existence at death.  Some may believe that way, but I would think it's quite possible to believe that death involves some sort of evolution to another dimension or level of being, not involving a "god," or a "church" or any religious trappings, but simply being the way the universe operates...some law of the conservation of energy or something.

And I think that many who are facing serious illness find comfort in believing that death is not a complete termination of their existence. 

I know we have a number of folks on the site who are atheistic, and I certainly have no desire to offend them, but just because this neurosurgeon, or others who have had these near-death experiences speak of them in religious terms, that's their interpretation based on their individiual beliefs.  There are other explanations that don't require a belief in a supreme being, angels, heaven, or any of those religious conventions.

 

Posted 10/10/2012 1:59 PM (GMT 0)
I passed out in a restaurant one time and had an out of body experience. I was screaming through space, seeing people that had passed. It was intense and pleasant until I was pulled back from the experience by a face that I did not recognize but was drawn to. It was the Maiter d's face and I was lying on the floor looking up at him with a crowd around me. Very embarrassing coming too like that and trying to figure out why I was lying on the floor of this restaurant. I asked the ER doctor about it and he said it was probably just some neurons shorting out, but it was quite an experience for me. Was it a trip to the other side or just a dream...I don't know but it changed the way I think.

They say a human is the only animal who contemplates his own death.
Posted 10/10/2012 2:08 PM (GMT 0)
I will say this is a most interesting thread.

The article has a religious connotation.

Is there a requirement that if God is not mentioned, then it is not religious?

An afterlife implies that there is a life after death. That does require a certain faith and it seems one has crossed the line into religion.

Oh, well, each to his own.

Mel
Posted 10/10/2012 2:15 PM (GMT 0)
I found out yesterday afternoon that my 80 year old Sister had passed away in her sleep the night before. She had been back home one week after visiting us for 3 weeks, and in saying goodbye at the airport, I felt that this might be the last time together for us. No particular reason for that, just a feeling.

Mt sister was somewhat of a cat whisperer. We have two grey tabbies, and they were drawn to her whenever she would visit.

Last night when we went to bed, the cats came up on the bed as soon as we turned the lights off, something they don’t usually do. Instead of laying at the foot of the bed, they stretched out along my side, and went to sleep, remaining there the entire night.

Then this morning I turn to Healing Well, and find this post from Davidg. I was compelled to read the Doctor’s account, and it gave me a sense of peace, as if my sister somehow had reached out to me to let me know she is in a good place.

So, once again this site has been a blessing to me, just not in a way I might have thought.

All the best.

Roger
Posted 10/10/2012 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
Michael Shermer in the "Believing Brain" has a chapter devoted to the afterlife that is very interesting. All of the out of body experiences described by those who have died have been repeated thousands of times by depriving the brain of oxygen, hypoxia of the cortex.
The same experiences have been duplicated by electrical stimulation of the temporal lobes. So have experiences of Alien abductions, the tunnel of light, and floating above one's body.
This does not prove or disprove the afterlife in anyway, but does suggest a scientific explaination of what many people have experienced.
Posted 10/10/2012 3:27 PM (GMT 0)
This is a no -brainer, just like hemp oil. whats to check
Posted 10/10/2012 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
But it does make the whole point of censorship on any "reasonable " subject,suspect. If people are respectful any topic related to pca should be allowed. This one is related in the sense of everything being related. we all die, we all know that, How is it related to PCA specifically, which should be the question.
Posted 10/10/2012 3:59 PM (GMT 0)
Mel - you're wrong, it's spiritual, perhaps hopeful, not religious per se.

I'm not religious, PCa mad eme think of death and it scared/scares me. Links liek this are interesting to me in that regard.

I simply found the link interesting and worth sharing, you didn't have to click on it.
Posted 10/10/2012 4:07 PM (GMT 0)
I saw the article as describing a subjective experience. you don't have to call it anything. The person who experiences it actually had that experience. Whether it was "All in his head" or not is kind of a moot point.

I only hope that when my number is up and I have to step out into eternity, I will have the same feelings.

Does anyone remember Dumbledore the Wizard from Harry Potter?

"Of course it's all in your head, Harry, but why should that mean it isn't real?"

There's a paradox there that frustrates human reason, but ultimately, all we have are our subjective experiences.
Posted 10/10/2012 4:21 PM (GMT 0)
that's it, it's about "hope" for me and I get that "hope" regardless of how cynical I am.

At 40, that need for hope in me was sparked by getting PCa. I thought I was invincible at 40 until i got the news.

Now, I still don't believe it and tend to look at it as John T describes above, but it doesn't mean I'm not hopeful now that I need to be. That's how it's connected to PCa for me personally.
Posted 10/10/2012 5:02 PM (GMT 0)
I thought it was interesting and appreciate the posting. But I'm probably pretty inclined to no off-limits topics. I'm sure there's wisdom behind the rules, the camaraderie people on this site feel might vanish if we all understood how wrong the others are about politics. But this seems unlikely to inflame people that way.
Posted 10/10/2012 6:32 PM (GMT 0)
DavidG:
Why say I am WRONG? I can argue that I am RIGHT. But we are dealing with SEMANTICS. I do like the word "spiritual" better, so I'll go along with that. But Spiritual and Religious are certainly close; they are far from mutually exclusive. In fact, let's look at the dictionary. See below. I rest my case that this is a semantics issue.

Anyway, thanks for posting it. I originally said that it should not be on HW. Maybe technically it shouldn't (once again depends on whether or not this is overtly religious), but it is a great topic and an important one, especially because many of us are truly forced to confront our own mortality here
Posted 10/10/2012 6:57 PM (GMT 0)
well I just hope it didn't offend you, I just found it both interesting and for whatever it's worth, somewhat reassuring.
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