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Posted 10/12/2012 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
An - It's not just the role of a woman, but also that of a man.

Casey - do yourself a favor and read some Freud on the importance of sex and the role it plays in our psyche. If you're going to pretend to be enlightened about this (and other topics), at least try harder rather than resort to childish and transparent "digs". Also, I appreciate that Freud might not be your cup of tea, so here is how Dr. phil who you might relate to better explains it:

MYTH #7: A GREAT RELATIONSHIP HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX

The belief that sex is not important is a dangerous and intimacy-eroding myth. Sex provides an important time-out from the pressures of our daily lives and allows us to experience a quality level of closeness, vulnerability and sharing with our partners.
Sex might not be everything but it registers higher (90 percent) on the "importance scale" if it's a source of frustration in your relationship. If your sex life is unfulfilled, it becomes a gigantic issue. On the other hand, couples that have satisfying sex lives rate sex at only 10 percent on the "importance scale."
Don't restrict your thinking by considering sex to be something that only consists of the actual physical act. Touching, caressing, holding hands and any means by which you provide physical comfort to your partner can all be viewed as part of a fulfilling sex life.
Posted 10/12/2012 3:05 PM (GMT 0)
Raddad - saw you post about "permission" before you apparently deleted it. I was going to ak you what you mena about permission. I don't see anyone discussing that per se.
Posted 10/12/2012 3:39 PM (GMT 0)
Not sure how helpful thisn is all being for Roger. Although it is clear from all these posts that if you take fifty couples it looks like you get about 150 opinions about the role of sex.
I wonder if Roger could persuade his wife to keep him comapny next time he goes to see his uro, then perhaps when he gets asked how things are on the ED front he could answer this in her presence. Difficult to judge as I'm not suggesting he does any "finger-pointing".
And, once again, hats off to my Dutch hospital where they have a sex-consellor/therapist, whose services have been mentioned to me numerous times, and mentioned with the same ease with which they mention the nutritional advisor.
And note this sex therapist is there for all patients with cancer, not just those whose cacner has invovled the bits you use during sex, as they are know that almost all cancer patients (and their partners) can have problems with their sex lives after diagnosis and treatment.

So Roger, if you're still here, have a look at this info from Cancer research UK about what support is available in the UK:
cancerhelp.cancerresearchuk.org/coping-with-cancer/coping-physically/sex-sexuality-and-cancer/sex-and-cancer-for-partners

Alf
Posted 10/12/2012 4:40 PM (GMT 0)

Wow, has this thread really peaked in interest. I'm starting to believe that sex and relationships are much similar to the treatments and SEs for PC. They all have common denominators, but they also have some very different opinions and feelings related to how they are treated and approached. Every relationship is different and as much as sex is sex and intimacy is intimacy, we all have different approaches on how to deal with these sexual relationship frustrations. Personally, I like to use my happiness level as a measuring stick for my quality of life and my sexual relationship is no longer at the top of my happy list, but it's still up there.....lol

　
Posted 10/12/2012 5:44 PM (GMT 0)
If I had know what I do now prior to surgery I think I would have talked more then about the rehab part of the PCA surgery with my wife, so we would be on same sheet of paper about what the rehab involves..that sex is part of it. I do agree not all of it, but it IS part.

When talking to others about PCA now I make sure to tell them about the importance of a loving involved partner willing to work with you for the long run in recovery..physical and emotional, and both from the PCA and from the pursuing ED
Posted 10/12/2012 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
Love is a choice we make...it's not always convenient, and it's not always fun. Love is putting others before ourselves. Yes, I know that means that we need to put our partner's needs before our own. But doesn't it also mean that they have to put our needs before theirs?\

I actually agree with Dr. Phil...and note that he was not just talking about sexual intercourse but also about those intimate gestures that are shared by men and women in love. Believe me, that special touch or look can speak volumes about how you feel about each other.

I applaud this thread and everyone who has participated. I'm sorry that English Roger is going through such turmoil but am personally glad that he shared it with all of us here. I've learned alot and have new admiration for my fellow members - both men and women.

You guys truly do rock!
Posted 10/12/2012 6:59 PM (GMT 0)
Roper, saw this from one of your tabloids on this topic.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2007065/How-important-sex-marriage-Passion-marriage-wane-So-YOU-making-priority.html
Posted 10/12/2012 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
Don't give up! It is just in the opposite in our marriage- This is month 4 of the dry spell- and he is apparently to cheap to buy the medicine confused or just not interested- Possibly both- It appears PC will never grant you what you had before- Maybe she is going through a rough phase or something unrelated and in time she will come around-
Posted 10/12/2012 7:38 PM (GMT 0)

nhwife said...
I have read and followed this thread like the previous one. And I realized something, something my husband and I talked about last night.
When this PCa journey began 10 years ago, I was of course 10 years younger. Sex became infrequent because of the surgery and finally has just not returned. A few years ago if I had read this thread, i would have said I did miss sex. Now I realize I do not. Whether it is because I am finally menopausal or not, I just don't. So in a way now I mirror my husband's noninclinations.
That being said, we couldn't be more close this days, more loving. We have our little nightly routines and have added to that lately - a little dance with a little offkilter humming.
I totally agree with Zimac and Purgatory in what they said. I am in this marriage for the long haul. I look at him every day and am grateful to have him. He does the same. We say we love each other every day.
This is the value to me of HW: to read these threads and realize some things and talk about those things with my husband. It's helped with even more sharing and communication.

This is interesting to read- You eventually do not even miss sex anymore- I am 34 and my husband is 60- This Nov will be 12 months no prostate- I find myself over anaylzing- Does he just not want to buy the expensive-pills- Does not find me attractive anymore- Is the stress to perform the root of some of these problems- Before prostate we had a rocky sex life- mainly having two kids close in age- one of us was always in another room or had a kid duties- I am to prideful to talk about it-and when I do its usually because I am ticked off and about something else and then everything wrong comes out- Eleven years of marriage and I never expected these type of challenges- Its great to find other women and men in the same boat on here- and find hope that their are brighter days-
Posted 10/12/2012 7:50 PM (GMT 0)
willing to bet he finds you as attractive as the day you married him. Talk to him about your feelings is the best advice I can give. So much can be the root of this, age, PCa SEs, anger at cancer, depression, fatigue, regular life issues related to raising two teenagers.
Posted 10/12/2012 8:01 PM (GMT 0)
Sunny2012, I am 58 and my husband is 60. If I was 34, it might be different.
But I think one of the strongest thoughts in this thread is husband and wife need to communicate. It really is the surest answer. And not knowing always is worse. Like this beastly disease - there is so much not knowing, it's difficult.
One thing my husband and I have worked hard at is to never to bed angry with the other. Talk about a challenge!
Posted 10/12/2012 9:22 PM (GMT 0)
nh, we have had that same rule about never going to bed with anger on the temper, not that we hardly even argue. i think its a good rule to follow, and a better way to start the next morning out with. it has worked for 38 plus years for us.

communications on both sides is the key, i believe

david in sc
Posted 10/13/2012 12:04 AM (GMT 0)
It's easy to sit here and diagnose Mrs. English's reasons for shutting her husband out.

I'm not diagnosing anything. I'm telling you point blank, that if someone demonstrates (over an extended period of time) that they want nothing to do with you, you can cower around like a whipped dog, and beg forgiveness for something that you didn't do, or move the heck on. Make your own choice. Life is short. But don't lecture me for mine.
Posted 10/13/2012 12:38 AM (GMT 0)
In my humble opinion, this whole thread is another SE of this disease we all have in common and as per usual we all have different opinions on how to deal with it......good luck Roger and above all, keep the communication line open cause without that we're doomed!
Posted 10/13/2012 1:08 AM (GMT 0)
it's all about communication, and if we are to go by stereotypes, the English are pretty reserved. I say having lived in England for years and having half my family being English and living in England currently.

So reminds me of a joke I heard a long time ago...

Two Italian men, an Italian woman, two french men, a French woman, two Bulgarian men, a Bulgarian woman, and two Englishmen and an English woman were stranded on a desert island. After year on the island, the Italain men had killed each other competing for the Italian woman, the French men had struck a deal and happily shared the French woman. The two Bulgarian men took a close look at the Bulgarian woman and one at the endless ocean and started to swim. The Englishmen are still waiting to be introduced to the English woman.

Okay, that's just a bad joke. But the point really is that this is all about communication. True, we don't know the intricate details of any of our respective relationships, but on the face of it Roper seems to be getting treated unfairly in my opinion. He's also upset enough about it to reach out to people online to discuss the issue, an issue that is probably very common. But I bet that a good talk, alone or with a therapist would help them tremendously. Sex and the sexual needs of a partners are too important to ignore.
Posted 10/13/2012 1:30 AM (GMT 0)
Souther Comfort,

I absolutely LOVE your post and agree with it 100%.

I feel bad for this marriage (Roger and his wife). It's great if many couples here are at a different place sexually (meaning less often), and both partners are happy with it. I see absolutely no problem with that. The issue here is, English Roger isn't at that place. He isn't comfortable emotionally nor physically with that sort of arrangement, and therein lies the problem. Is he to disregard how he feels, and say goodbye to making love to his wife? He doesn't want to, so why should he have to? I don't know what the issue is in the marriage (I really feel for both of them), and I realize it could be a number of things, including a low libido on his wife's part due to age. This doesn't seem like something that is going away for him, since this is the second time he has brought it up. I hope the two of you (Roger and wife) can talk to someone about this, obviously outside of healingwell.

For me, I will bring up re-hab since it was mentioned in a previous post above. I think Soutern Comfort, Natural44 and several others said it best. Sex following RP hasn't always been easy, however I take pride (but still humble) in knowing I am teaming with my husband to push through this phase in our lives. I have no complaints, and enjoy my role/part in the healing process. My husband has always been a very generous lover, and my sexual needs were always treated as a top priority before his own. I am happy to retun the favor now. I recognize we are all at different places sexually on this forum, and I am not here to judge anyone, since obviously, I have not walked in their shoes. Good luck, English Roger.
Posted 10/13/2012 2:56 AM (GMT 0)
Sex after RP is not easy. Especially if you were single going into it.

I've not commented here, as I have nothing to offer English Roger. I'm still trying to find a woman who will take me and my "issues". Whether she wants or refuses sex will be a future issue, as HT is kicking in with a vengence.

But I am less than pleased with the members who are sniping at each other about their opinions, sometimes more than a bit aggressively presented. We are to respond to the original poster, and offer what we can in the way of support. All of the other comments are off topic and inappropriate.

This comment is not in sequential or subject order, and not a direct comment to whoever posted last. It is my opinion after looking at the full thread. The comments have been largely good, but there are a few that violate our "support" premise. If one was yours, feel free to delete or edit it now.

It is a weekend. Give the arguments a rest, and post if you feel you can contibute in a positive way to our fellow member. Otherwise, go play ball with the grandkids if you have them, or the dog if you don't.

Posted 10/13/2012 3:03 AM (GMT 0)
Oh, my goodness!  I missed this thread and have spent over an hour reading four pages of responses from our brothers and sisters here.  There are several particpants I totally agree with, others not so much.  Our situation is a bit different because my husband has faced two surgeries after his DaVinci surgery, and many days of chronic pain.  He hasn't been well enough to have the same sexual desires as in the past.

There was a period of about 6 months that we had sexual intercourse in mind and he took the ED pills.  This did not work.  Because of his testicle problem, some other methods were not compatible.  So, at this point in time things have been put on the back burner.  It seems my libido has changed in the last two years and simple intimacy is fine.  I think we all want the hugs, kisses, back rubs, that show love is there.  I also believe age has something to do with expectations. 

"An and Sephie, I understand your sentiments, and I am a guy (David)."  I am of the same mindset, also agreeing with Juliet.  We don't know what our future holds but we know we're a team and our love for one another ranks #1.   We can make suggestions to Roger, but we don't know his wife.  He says she has no physical problems, but if she is shutting him out - then how does he know.  Something like depression can lower a women's libido.  I simply don't like the idea that she must service him as part of the marriage contract.  Maybe counseling would help?  It's worth mentioning it to her.

Posted 10/13/2012 3:19 AM (GMT 0)
Aimzee, glad you caught up with this thread. It has grown amazingly large, and like you said, and the Mod above, most of it has been positive.

I think what most of us would agree on behalf of our friend and brother Rodger is this:

Professional counseling could be very useful for him, for her, for them as a couple.

However, counseling only has a chance, if, both couples are willing and wanting to be counseled, if both parties are willing to be totally honest - regardless of their feelings and input.  And if they truly have a non-biased counseler to begin with.

Second, and this not a negative mark toward Rodger, is that we, as his peers here at HW, being both male and female, mostly married folks, some divorced, some not married, are only hearing one side of this story.  We are hearing Rodgers side loud and clear, and I have no problems with the validity of his side.  But we aren't hearing anything directly from his wife.

I know this isn't going to happen, but if by some means, his wife told her story, then, perhaps, we could see the whole story, and be in a better way to advise the two of them as a couple.

In the end, it may be a one sided situation, that is certainly possible. But without hearing both sides, its not feasable to draw any real conclusion.

I also believe, in the spirit of HW, we would as a group, love to see a happy solution to Rodgers problem, I don't see any issues of lack of support, sympathy and even empathy for what our brother here is going through and feeling.

Speaking for myself, I am hoping Rodger will digest the combined input here, and give us some kind of indication if there is any improvement, no matter how small, of his situation.  I would like to think, that at least, he knows he is appreciated here, and well supported by the good people here at HW.

Its been a most interesting thread for sure, and I so hope that things work out for him at some point.  This subject obviously hit a lot of nerves, both male and female among us.

Rodger, if you are reading this, please don't give up hope.

David in SC

 

Post Edited (Purgatory) : 10/12/2012 9:31:18 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/13/2012 5:05 AM (GMT 0)
Aimzee,

I wasn't trying to run down the joys of grandparenthood, or not exactly. At the time I was writing about, the twins were a couple of months old and we had spent only a few days with them. I love my daughter and they are her babies so, by a sort of transitive operation, I loved them, too. But little babies don't have a lot of personality at that age. And, while I am very nurturing for a man, I am a man, and we don't react to babies the same way the ladies do. Men can and do love babies, but we don't generally love the idea of babies. If my wife had a grandbaby handy that she could have handed to me right then -- small and warm and needing to be rocked and jiggled to keep it happy -- that might have helped. But talking about babies, not so much.

I like to think that I will be a good grandfather but I must admit that my grandfather set the bar impossibly high. (I only had one, the other died when I was too young to remember.) He was a stupendous grandfather. A force of nature. But it wasn't because he loved his grandchildren (although he did) nor because he needed us around to be happy. It was because he lived a big old life with lots of interesting stuff going on and it was an honor and a privilege that he let us play a part in it.

So, while I am not stepping away from the idea that when a man is depressed that his sex life may be over, reminding him that he is a grandfather may make him feel old. It is also true that when a man feels old he can feel unequal to the job of being a proper grandfather. I am not sure I am ready yet in either sense.
Posted 10/13/2012 5:23 AM (GMT 0)
Oh, Peter - I deleted my post because I didn't think it was meaningful.  That's not fair since you did reply.  So sorry...  I wrote:

But (and here's a note for you ladies on the forum) when a man is depressed because he feel old, and sexless and useless, reminding him that he is a grandfather and offering to take him shopping for baby stuff doesn't help. It makes him think about finding a warm, comfortable place where he can sit, quietly and out of the way, and wait for the reaper. [Peter's Post]

Peter, we watch our Grandchildren 3-4 times a week while their parents are working. This actually adds a new dimension to our lives. They bring happiness and purpose to our lives. It must be extremely difficult having for your wife to have her twin Grandbabes three states away. Please don't wait for the "reaper" but perhaps plan a trip to visit them soon. Grandparenting adds a new spectrum to the life span. I hope you have shared your thoughts about feeling old, sexless, and useless. I think it is difficult for most of us to share those deep, dark secrets. I wish you the best.

Second reply: How wonderful that you were blessed with such a wonderful Grandfather!  I hope it all comes together for you.  I now understand better what you meant.  BTW, my own father was 43 years old when he became a Grandfather.  wink

Posted 10/13/2012 1:08 PM (GMT 0)
English Roger: back to your original post (sorry this thread took a bit of a detour).

I've no words of wisdom for you and certainly none of us has a magic wand that we can wave and bring back the life we used to know. Your post touched something in each of us, and I think it's safe to say that we all feel your isolation and pain.

As difficult as it might be, I believe it's important for you to tell your dear wife exactly how you feel. In my own marriage, I often find that my husband had no idea what I was feeling, and I know that I've often been surprised to learn of his own feelings. In any relationship, it's easy to think that we really know what the other person thinks or feels, and are often surprised to learn that we are wrong in our assumptions.

Perhaps introducing the subject slowly...in little "bites" as it were...might help pave the way for a more in-depth discussion.

I wish you well and hope that you and Mrs. English Roger can find your own personal "happy place."
Posted 10/13/2012 1:54 PM (GMT 0)
I am sorry Sephie, for getting off track.  I wasn't a participant in English Roger's August 26 -28 thread, so I went back to read it (another 4 pages).  On page 3, Rodger provides more information on his wife and how she has been there for him after several surprising events.  It adds dimension to the thread.  I am just guessing... just speculating that Mrs. Roger may be experiencing depression.  She may be postmenopausal and perhaps that might be what is going on with her?  Sometimes when people go through depression, they do shut out their loved ones.  There have been several good suggestions here, I hope Rodger and his wife can be helped.

Best to both,

Aimzee

Posted 10/13/2012 2:29 PM (GMT 0)
As a 51 year old female I find this thread very intersting and I like the honesty.
I can relate to the sadness and pain of your wife not being interested in making love, the shoe is on the other foot here, But then we are only 8 months since diagnosis.
My husband had brachytherapy and 6 months of horomone therapy. I dont know whats normal and whats not..my husband has zero interest in anything to do with sex, maybe thats normal?
But it does make you look at your relationship in a whole new way, and there is an emptiness.
So thats from a female prospective....
feel your pain!!
Posted 10/13/2012 2:35 PM (GMT 0)
Welcome debh51 to our forum.  So sorry you have to be here, but you will find many helpful men and women to support you.  If you start a thread, maybe those who have been or are going through that treatment could provide some information? 

Much peace,

Aimzee

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