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Posted 2/22/2013 6:06 PM (GMT 0)
So, Susan R, in your ladylike way you are calling bu11sh1t on us, is that right? I guess that's fair. I stick by my contention that for a man in a sharing relationship his partner's pleasure is a key component, and a necessary part, of his excitement. But nature has equipped us with advanced skills in self-deception. Any man who is sufficiently randy can easily convince himself he is showing her a good time while she is mentally reviewing her shopping list and waiting for him to finish. Surely, we convince ourselves, a fire that hot must feel warm, at least, a couple of inches away.

And, by and large, unless my wife has been lying to me all these years, it does feel warm. One's partner's excitement is contagious. There have been times when I was tired, or not in the mood, when I have mooched off of her heat. When we were young she could generate all we needed. As we got older it was more like a glow-plug in a diesel engine, providing enough warmth to get me going and then letting me pull the load.

The problem you describe is how to get things started when the spark just can't be found on either side. That's harder to deal with. It is what most of us who have posted on this thread have dealt with from time to time and in varying degrees. We have advised you to spread a wide net -- to look for the spark in unexpected places -- because that's where some of us have found it. We encourage you because you guys are so young. Surely you can make it work again. And some of us encourage you because we are still struggling and if you kids can't make it, what hope is there for us?
Posted 2/22/2013 6:35 PM (GMT 0)
Susan :Wish my wife had those concerns :)

Seriously, nothing turns on a guy as much as being wanted and getting positive reinforcement/feedback about what he's doing. And it doesn't have to be done with an erect penis. Watching a woman "get off" is a huge prize, if you're getting her off, you feel like a superhero and that you're special to that person.

Of course a guy wants to climax too, but let's face it, erect or not, it's a lot easier to get us off in most cases. Give most guys 2 minutes and a great image and it's game over.
Posted 2/22/2013 6:40 PM (GMT 0)
Oh no! I wasn't calling BS I was just trying to say that both sides wish that their partner be pleasured so how do you resolve that impass? If I want him to be pleasured bit can't physically then there will always be something missing, a lack of pleasure. Even if one side is pleasured. Both sides want to please the other and one side isn't fully pleased, it has to leave something lacking and if something is lacking then how do we get past thAt?

Wow, this has take. A turn I didn't think it would! I want to please my husband and to be graphic. There is nothing that pleases me
More than his orgasm. He knows this about me. So since he can't achieve the orgasm, we have moved on to the next thing he feels pleased me most and that is my orgasm (which really is t ALL that important to me) so I have orgasm after orgasm. (Yeah I know my problems are HUGE- said sarcastically) and he is happy that he has pleased me, but ultimately I just want to please him and can't fully do that since he just wants his erections back. Vicious cycle!!!

Probably too much info. But there ya go. The bottom line! Hope not to offend
Posted 2/22/2013 6:44 PM (GMT 0)
Susan, maybe he won't climax every single time. I don't know too many women who do. But the pleasure he gets from getting you off will maintain your intimacy and be fun. I've heard many guys here talk about how they reach orgasm without an erection. It's definitely possible. I bet if he relaxes you guys can find the way there.
Posted 2/22/2013 7:35 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,

Some day you should try to offend. I am of the opinion you couldn't do it. You certainly haven't offended anyone today.

So, with a bit more information to work with I have a couple of questions which you may have covered in a previous post that I have forgotten.

Your signature shows he is on Androgel; what is his T score? There is some dispute about where the lower end of the "normal" range should fall and some men still have symptoms of hypogonadism with low normal levels of T. Something to talk to his doctor about.

Is he on anti-depressants? You mentioned problems with his orgasm. Prozac has terrible sexual side effects in just that area.
Posted 2/22/2013 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Susan,

Not sure if this was one of your original questions, but davidg is right. It is EASILY possible for a man to have an orgasm without an erection. In the months following my surgery and, even today to an extent, I have had extremely intense orgasms with absolutely no sign of erection at all. There is no requirement for a man to be hard to "get off."

Naturally, most men have dry orgasms after surgery since there is no longer any prostate to produce semen. In some cases (and I guess I'm one of the lucky ones), the Cowper's glands are spared. These glands produce the clear lubricating fluid that precedes ejaculation. In my case, those glands are still there and often do provide some ejaculate even without a prostate.

In both cases, erection is NOT required. So, if this might be helpful for you & your husband to know, I'm glad to confirm davidg's comment -- and hope it did not make you blush.

Take care,
Chuck
Posted 2/23/2013 1:33 AM (GMT 0)
It is so funny that you have the vision of me unable to offend! Gonna have to share that one with Michael, he will definately bust a gut laughing. I actually lack some social graces and offend people all the time. With the magic of the internet I am able to write, proof read and rewrite several times until I get it JUST RIGHT! But nice of you to think of me in such a positive way.

Androgel, his T level the last time, he wouldnt tell me since he knew I would get on him for not using the androgel on a regular basis. The first T level was 112, if I remember correctly, quite low for a 40 year old. I think his low T level has quite a bit to do with his lack of response, but he does not agree. And unfortunately I am not able to MAKE him apply the gel daily.

He does not take an anti-depressant, nor will he take any other medication, although his BP is quite high and he has been prescribed meds for years.....do you see a trend here????

He will not use aids, nor will he take medications on a regular basis, so in a way he is asking for feeling as crappy as he does!
Posted 2/23/2013 1:48 AM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I don't mind people who offend others. Sometimes some people deserve to be offended. LOL

Does your husband wear glasses or contacts? Maybe you can hit him up with the logic that he IS using aids in order to help him improve whatever particular sense is involved. Vision aids to see better, etc.

If he likes to fish, does he reach into the water & try to snare a fish passing by? Or does he use a fishing line & tackle to "AID" him in accomplishing the task? Does he like to drive from place to place -- or walk? If he drives to various locations, he is merely using a vehicle to "AID" himself in getting there more efficiently.

Why should it be any different with sex? Use an "aid" to help get there. No difference -- but a lot more convenient & enjoyable.

Maybe this form of logic will help move him toward giving it a try. And, I have no doubt that you can come up with your own analogies to "aid" in this logic. LOL

Good luck!!!
Chuck
Posted 2/23/2013 2:05 AM (GMT 0)
Susan....not sure how high his BP is but you might wanna force him to take those meds.....HBP can be a killer if not controlled. I have a bit of HBP myself....although not bad....the hydrochlorothiazide keeps it in check and has no side effects Im aware of.
Posted 2/23/2013 2:18 AM (GMT 0)
I had that question regarding this question with my DH who is on HT. His situation is much more advanced, and is now in a considerable amount of pain. Our intimacy is about cuddling and kissing each other. I haven't iniated sex for a long time, after he started getting panic attacks and heat flashes. At this point that isn't on the radar. What is left to say?

Susan W.
Posted 2/23/2013 12:01 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,
Keep trying. Anything is better than nothing. This coming from someone whose wife took the PCa diagnosis as an opportunity to end all intimacy, including the simple moments that are depicted in the Viagra/Cialis/Levitra commercials on TV.
There is no talking about it, and I have toughed it out, perhaps to the detriment of my own heart health. I have been carrying a measure of repressed anger and, coincidently have began to experience chest pains. A heart cath showed clear major arteries but some smaller ones blocked, though expected to recover with time, diet and exercise. (Bataan Death March)
Affection is medicine - and a little goes a long way.
Posted 2/23/2013 2:11 PM (GMT 0)
Susan,

The little man behind the curtain who operates the keys and levers that run the fictitious colossus named PeterDisAbelard is different than I am in many respects. Like you he rethinks and reedits before he hits submit (although some here might find that hard to believe.) But in the end it all comes from him, he is to blame for anything I might say. Online you are charming and, I still maintain, incapable of giving offense. It has to come from somewhere.

A T level of 112 is low for anybody. It would be only mildly high for a woman. According to the NIH:

Normal Results

Male: 300 -1,000 ng/dL
Female: 15 - 70 ng/dL

Note: ng/dL = nanograms per deciliter

The examples above are common measurements for results for these tests. Normal value ranges may vary slightly among different laboratories. Some labs use different measurements or test different specimens.Talk to your doctor about the meaning of your specific test results.
Posted 2/24/2013 2:13 AM (GMT 0)
The phrase I used "not using Aids to help". Those were my words not my husbands. Michaels says this "I don't like taking pills because they just mask the issue and don't solve the problem". He just does not like taking pills for any reason. I went with him for a dr appt (follow up for non PCa related issue) she asked him about taking his BP meds, I spoke up and said he wasn't taking them. Her response was that she also has high BP and takes her meds daily, not because she is afraid to die, but because she is afraid of having a stroke and not being able to have control over her body, having to have people wipe her butt and feed her. Dying is easy, it is having to deal with the other stuff that uncontrolled high BP can do to a person. He states he would take his meds. That's was about a month ago and hasn't gotten the RX filled. Just to give you an idea. I cannot make him take his meds, I wish I could. I think the low T is making him miserable, not only due to the low libido and lack of erection, but he is tired all the time and I think depressed. He is talking about asking his URO about Testosterone shots. Guess we will see.

This is all kind of off topic. I appreciate all the input and hope I have answered all questions. Thank you for sharing
Posted 2/24/2013 8:14 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry that the "not using aids to help" did not directly apply to your husband. I was hoping the plays on words would strike a chord with him. At the same time, he should realize that not all pills are designed to solve a problem -- just to ease it and make it livable.

This certainly applies to high BP also. I have borderline high BP and my primary physician at Mayo Clinic is a hypertension specialist. I was amazed when he first checked me for signs of high BP, which included things like looking into my eyes for signs of stress on the tiny blood vessels within. If the blood vessels in the eyes appear to be "bulging," it is a sign of damage being caused by high BP.

Your husband should be aware of the domino affect that high BP does to the body -- and yet a tiny little pill every day can avoid all of those problems -- including possible stroke.

If he is aware of all this and still does not care, I would fear that it would take a catastrophic event to make him see the light. Maybe putting it to him in those terms might bring him around?

On the other hand, one adult cannot force another adult to do the right thing. You sure seem to be doing all that is humanly possible for a wife to do for her husband, so I salute you for that.

Hang in there & hope that he wakes up one day & sees the light & begins taking pills under the understanding that they do not mask the problem -- they help ease the problem.

Wish there was more I could say to find whatever magic combination of words would help wake him up.

Take care,
Chuck
Posted 2/24/2013 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
Like Chuck said, there's not that much you can do if he won't take his meds. Feel free to tell him that some guys you've never met told you on the internet that he should. That'll help.

When he talks to his doctor about the T shots tell him to ask if it is available in a form that can be put in a veterinary air-gun dart so his wife can 'remind' him when he gets forgetful. Maybe the compounding pharmacy that mixes his trimix could help you put some of his blood pressure meds in there, too.

[The preceding paragraph was a joke, not medical advice. If it had been medical advice it would have been bad advice. But as a joke... well, I think it's funny. And it would serve him right.]

That's all I got.
Posted 2/24/2013 7:45 PM (GMT 0)
I took your paragraph as a joke, but the funniest is the disclaimer that you really were just joking!!!! Good stuff!!! I would love to have an air gun shot that I could "remind" him of his meds. Hey, could make it a form of foreplay......have to get creative right??? (wink)

I just dont know what do to with him, but back on the topic at hand. I turned to HW, because I know that you all will share information with me about the male ego, give male insight that I cannot get anywhere else. I will continue to make the effort to have intercourse with him, making sure he knows I am ok if it doesnt happen. THANK YOU!
Posted 2/27/2013 9:47 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Susan,

You always get wonderful advice from so many here with your questions. It's hard for us to understand the male mind sometimes. I hope some of the comments will be helpful, just keep some action happening.

Kathy
Posted 2/27/2013 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Susan,

I do not understand the male mind but here is my two cents as a female. If Michael wants to have intimacy with you then he is getting rewards in some way from it. It may just be that it pleases him to please you, and it is a way for you guys to connect and be close. Since he is initiating it, and it is coming from him I would engage, without question. Many women complain that their husbands have withdrawn from romantic relations, including guys who have only had surgery as their treatment. I think that it can only help your marriage to maintain intimate relations.

Some of the treatments for ED such as pills and injections are not band aids on the problem; they are the way to help the body to heal from it. I'm sure that you know that. I hear your frustration about not being able to get Michael to take meds. You are doing everything humanly possible to help him, and seem very sensitive to his health and happiness.

My husband had surgery and we are trying to fight our way out of ED. Maintaining intimacy is a challenge - things are very different than they were a few months ago before his surgery. I have had some dark days but through communication (not always easy with my husband) we are doing well.

I wish you and your husband the best.
Posted 2/27/2013 6:15 PM (GMT 0)
Ah yes, the endlessly mysterious male mind. I would explain it to you ladies but, like all males, I am sworn to secrecy.

I think I can say, though, without revealing any critical inter-gender secrets that for purposes of how a man feels about his erectile dysfunction a pretty good model is to think of him as still being four years old. At puberty he was given THE. BEST. TOY. EVER. and now it is being taken away. If you have ever spent much time with a four year old you know that they can never be consoled. But, with an effort they can usually be distracted.
Posted 2/27/2013 6:25 PM (GMT 0)
This is a close to accurate as can be, first given the BEST TOY EVER, then have it taken away. You get to watch everyone else playing with their BEST TOY, but yours is gone. The other toys you find are poor substitutes which just remind you that the BEST TOY EVER, is gone forever.

PeterDisAbelard said...
Ah yes, the endlessly mysterious male mind. I would explain it to you ladies but, like all males, I am sworn to secrecy.

I think I can say, though, without revealing any critical inter-gender secrets that for purposes of how a man feels about his erectile dysfunction a pretty good model is to think of him as still being four years old. At puberty he was given THE. BEST. TOY. EVER. and now it is being taken away. If you have ever spent much time with a four year old you know that they can never be consoled. But, with an effort they can usually be distracted.

Posted 2/27/2013 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
I often feel like I don't have a clue what my husband is thinking as far as ED goes. I also feel like I am walking on eggshells, so don't ask too much. But the "BEST TOY EVER" sort of explains it. Thanks.
Posted 2/27/2013 10:38 PM (GMT 0)

Susan R said...
Oh no! I wasn't calling BS I was just trying to say that both sides wish that their partner be pleasured so how do you resolve that impass? If I want him to be pleasured bit can't physically then there will always be something missing, a lack of pleasure. Even if one side is pleasured. Both sides want to please the other and one side isn't fully pleased, it has to leave something lacking and if something is lacking then how do we get past thAt?

Wow, this has take. A turn I didn't think it would! I want to please my husband and to be graphic. There is nothing that pleases me
More than his orgasm. He knows this about me. So since he can't achieve the orgasm, we have moved on to the next thing he feels pleased me most and that is my orgasm (which really is t ALL that important to me) so I have orgasm after orgasm. (Yeah I know my problems are HUGE- said sarcastically) and he is happy that he has pleased me, but ultimately I just want to please him and can't fully do that since he just wants his erections back. Vicious cycle!!!

Probably too much info. But there ya go. The bottom line! Hope not to offend

Aghhh, how do I ask this without getting too personal and/or graphic? Well, here goes.....

Is it the mental experience of knowing he is having great pleasure during his orgasm that turns you on the most? Or is the physical aspect of receiving the associated fluids that are produced when a normal prostate is present?

I ask this because, if it is the former, your husband should realize that any man can easily have an orgasm WITHOUT an erection -- even if it is a "dry" orgasm. In this case, there should be some common ground that could reestablish the sexual fire that you both used to share.

If it is the PHYSICAL part, then I guess it could continue to be a problem. I think I did mention in a prior post, however, that some men can still produce an "ejaculate" after prostate removal. I guess I'm one of those lucky ones because I don't see a lot of others saying they can also do this. Depends on if the Cowper's glands are spared.

In any case, he should still be able to have orgasm even if completely soft -- after all, women do basically the same thing. The only thing needed is the sexual desire and, of course, the physical turn on -- which I have no doubt that you are providing to him.

Good luck again!
Chuck
Posted 2/27/2013 11:10 PM (GMT 0)
Chuck,

Now I have the problem of how to put something delicately. I'm afraid that you were so worried about how to ask your question without being indelicate that you missed the fact that you didn't need to ask it at all. If you look at her 2/22/2013 12:40 PM comment you will see that the reason she misses her husbands orgasms is not because they are unsatisfying, it is because they are absent. He is not capable of achieving them -- at least not the way he wants. I am sure she knows the physical changes that come with her husband's new simplified plumbing.
Posted 2/28/2013 12:05 AM (GMT 0)
Too much effort to find positive thoughts for others to build from sometimes gets me into trouble.
My apologies, I should have reread the entire thread prior to posting -- something I often lack the patience to do.

I'll try to do better in the future. :)
Posted 2/28/2013 12:06 AM (GMT 0)
Peter,

Oh yes the toy...totally understand. LOL

Kathy
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