What is the romance with the zero PSA club?

There's no romance, don't understand your reference to that. Having the beast under control is generally accepted as having a post-treatment PSA of <.10. We also know there is no such thing as a true zero reading. It's been the long tradition at HW PC, to call such a reading as being in the "zero club", which most members take as a good token and sign of progress of having their cancer under control.

There are men 5-6 years out - pulling years of zero's, that still report anxiety, and there are those of us on the other end - with fast rising PSA numbers and even having secondary BCR - that don't display any anxiety. Just varies man by man, personality by personality.

Can't say I have ever heard of anyone here having a problem with the term "zero club", once they understand what it means and what it means to the bulk of the members here.

However, you are certainly free to disagree, and not use or embrace the term. That's okay as well.

Thanks,

David in SC

Hope springs eternal! Next week I get my first post RALP PSA and my first shot at getting into the zero club. I'd like to become a member and stay a member. But it is what it is....

God knows there's enough bad news reported here, I like to see and to have a chance to celebrate the good news.

Bronson --- love the graphics...

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PSA3DOT7,

Those that get a PSA blood test and it comes back undetectable should celebrate.  Whether they post that their latest PSA is undectable or that they belong to the Zero Club is just a way that guys (and gals) celebrate.  It's good news and I don't see anything wrong with it.  Good for them.

Those that get a PSA blood test and it comes back with a rising PSA are naturally upset because their PSA is detectable and they don't belong to the "Zero Club".  Guys can't control it, but yet they get kicked out of a "club".  This by itself can be upsetting and I can understand to a point what you are saying. 

I guess I need a different club.  I get a PSA blood test every month.  Since after my surgery I have had a technically undetectable PSA for 4 years.  This has been on Intermittant HT (30 months with no HT; 18 months on HT).  So, technically I have been a member of the zero club for 48 straight months.  On paper it sounds pretty good.  However,  My PSA did rise to a whopping .09 a few years ago; followed by scans that showed 2 bone mets.  So, I knew at that point that even though I fit the definition of a technically 0 PSA; having bone mets should kick me out of the club.  I've been off HT for over a year, PSA is undetectable, but can't really say I belong to the zero club.

Thanks,

Jerry

I've qualified for membership since my SRT 3 years ago, but have never officially claimed it. I don't think of myself as superstitious, but maybe I am a bit--declaring membership could be a jinx. FWIW, my wife used to be in theater (or as they say theatre in her native U.K.) and I know there are rituals which must be observed -- e.g., only ever referring to Mr. Shakespeare's Scottish play as the "Scottish Play." And if a member of the company should utter the "MacB......" word there are then things which must be done immediately to atone.

81G... Thanks for the story of Pandora. Somehow I never knew the twist at the end where Hope is released. That puts a whole 'nother, and better spin on the tale. I've always been more of a Sissyphus guy -- picking myself up and rolling the rock one more time.

www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/sisyphus.html

Bronson -- great logos

It breaks my heart to read this thread. I'm in the zero club and hesitate to report it, feeling bad for those who have not been as lucky (and I recognize it is just luck), to be where I am.

I report zeroes to let others know that a lot of it is just statistics ... i.e., luck. And no one should forget that when they report the statistics, and there is some percentage that comes out on the lucky side, that there is no way of knowing who will be the lucky ones. And sometimes it is worth rolling the dice. Because hey ... someone has to win.

I was diagnosed as G8 revised to G9 ... very lucky that the random sampling appears to have been wrong. Really G7 post-op. But ... someone has to be in that lucky group where they get it wrong. My message to others who have been diagnosed as G8/G9 ... have some faith in luck.

I didn't win the lottery on Tuesday, but there is no one as lucky as me! And I know it. (And yes, I still play the lottery when it is sky high!)

Good luck to all.

- UG

Logos and others I don't feel a "little silly" for posting the thread. I just think that a "zero PSA" or close to zero PSA is not really a "get out of jail card" (see the article below). I have no issue with hope (which sat at the bottom of Pandoras box). We all feel that we want to beat this "thing"; but to provide someone hope and enshrine it in an EXCLUSIVE club is less than what I expected from a support group that should be INCLUSIVE. We are in this together, what ever your PSA.

This is not to say that I don't feel encouraged that some of us who are on the mend and making progress. Such Good news should be shared. I believe any good news is helpful to lift our spirits but not at the expense of EXCLUDING others! What about someone whose PSA dropped from (say) 8 to 2, is that commendable?

An issue for me is the transition from the zero club. The following article at (http://urology.jhu.edu/newsletter/prostate_cancer52.php) sums it up and begins thus... "The return of PSA is a possibility that strikes terror in the heart of every radical prostatectomy patient; in fact, for many men, the dreaded follow-up PSA tests after surgery are almost worse than having the operation itself. What will you do if your PSA is no longer undetectable? [ie you NO LONGER QUALIFY for the ZERO CLUB.]

I see the zero club as a serious mental impediment for me. Some of you may be made of sterner stuff and can whether storms better than I ... good for you! One of my self-preservation strategies is NOT to stress myself unduly mentally by presupposing that I'm out of harms way and be ill prepared mentally for the road ahead. Unlike Pandora of the Greek Mythology, I ascribe to Senecas dictum (not verbatim) "What we least expect hurts us the most!" ... No wonder the article above refers to "terror in the heart" ....

Post Edited (PSA3DOT7) : 12/20/2013 5:04:22 AM (GMT-7)

Bronson,

I really liked the idea of a "No Alone Club". I think that is a big reason many of us keep coming to HW.

Great post on a very interesting thread.

PSA, just for the record, I do not feel you were "silly" for posting what you posted. As you note, it was not me that made that remark. I answered you from my perspective only, and there was no malice in my reply to you. The "silly" reference was made by another poster - stating their personal opinion only.

thanks,

David

I've had a bit of trouble coming up with the right comments for this thread.

I like the 'Hope' story, but for some of us, hope has little to do with disease progression. That does not mean we can't hope that Every Day Really is a Bonus. Credit Sonny for getting me to have that engraved on more than one really good bottle of adult libation, and a glass or two. And hope that today is rewarding in some way.

I know what direction I'm headed in, and my GP reminds me to keep up the exercise so that I'll have a chance to really die of PCa, instead of some mangy heart attack or stroke.

I was, very briefly, a member of the Zero Club. I'm not now, and probably won't be again. But it is like being a Scoutmaster. You were a kid, and you won't be again. You still give up nights and weekends to help kids enjoy Scouting. That is how I feel about the Zero Club. I'm happy for those who qualify. I don't, but much like going to a Court of Honor, I am happy for those who are recognized for something I did little of (there are a lot of merit badges out there).

But in the end, does it matter? Not really. It gives us something positive to talk about. Ever talk about the girl across the room who walked out of a centerfold? Consider not noticing, even on HT? I doubt it. This would be a truly dark place if all we talked about was Gleason scores.

Zero---much to do about nothing---literally!! I may be a current member of the club, but I sweat out every PSA test like most everyone else. The zero club is just a way to celebrate, so chose to celebrate or not. You can find a dark side to anything if you choose. Are birthdays to be celebrated, or do they simply mean you're one year closer to death? All in your point of view.

Tom

Buddy,

You do have to pay. Shoot me an email and I'll send you my address--I mean the address.

Tom