Best milk? Also calcium/D3 conflict?

Nut milk is good for you.. Coconut oil I hear is really good for you and can cook with it, use it in dressings, and as a moisturizer. My guess coconut milk would be good for you too.
Re: Vit D all I know about that is if you are deficient in Vit D you won't be able to absorb calcium. That's part why most calcium tablets also have some Vit D included.

Mel, this is confusion for sure. I'm about to conclude that we (including the medical establishment) don't know **** from shin-o-la about supplements/additives and that a common sense heart healthy diet is the real deal. Of course I have zero expertise in this area and this is simply pure speculation on my part but that has never stopped me before....

Jim

Mel, now that I work in a super market, I get to hear opinions from many people about products and the one that seems to get the most "buzz" is the unsweetened almond milk. While soy is great for the heart, it can wreck havoc on the digestive system and, for certain cancers, it apparently can "fuel" them. Nothing conclusive in any of this - just anecdotal.

As to calcium "cancelling" out vitamin D, it's the other around: low vitamin D levels prevent the calcium from being absorbed.

Billybob, I too was told I had osteopenia a few years ago. My doctor did not put me on Boniva or any of the bone-strengthening drugs but told me to make sure I was taking in 1200 mgs. of calcium with at least 400 units of vitamin D. My calcium supplement already contains vitamin D but I supplement my D intake by 2000 units each day. On my bone density in January, my spine showed a great improvement in bone density and my OB/GYN said "whatever it is you're doing, don't stop". Exercise helps greatly also to strengthen and build bones.

Let me start by admitting that my father was a door-to-door deliveryman for Sealtest Dairy.  I've always loved milk, and continue to drink non-fat milk, though mostly a bit on my cereal in the morning and an occasional glass with a snack.

That being said, could someone please explain to me what it really means when a study says that, "One of these (studies), conducted in northern Italy, found that frequent dairy consumption could increase risk by two and one-half times.

First of all, "frequent" isn't defined, and secondly, I don't fully understand the implications of "two and one-half times."  Does that mean that in a study involving 10,000 men, 5 "could" have an increased risk of cancer instead of 2 and a half men? 

I remember when I first started taking Lipitor, I did some reading on cholesterol studies, and when someone said that high cholesterol could "double" one's risk of a heart attack, that's approximately what they meant:  6 out of 10,000 instead of 3 out of 10,000.

I can understand avoiding cow's milk if someone really prefers the taste of soy or almond.  I can also understand switching when one is dealing with a recurrence and fighting like crazy to keep the disease at bay.  But, for most men, all of these studies seem to use the words "might" and "could" and "may," and "suggests" and "possibly," and I just don't have a firm sense of what the risk actually might be.  Can someone help me appreciate the true seriousness of the link between dairy and PCa? Has anyone "proved" a link, and how direct is that link?  I'm not trying to argue at all, just curious.

Post Edited (clocknut) : 4/25/2014 5:34:42 PM (GMT-6)

clocknut said...
Let me start by admitting that my father was a door-to-door deliveryman for Sealtest Dairy. I've always loved milk, and continue to drink non-fat milk, though mostly a bit on my cereal in the morning and an occasional glass with a snack.
That being said, could someone please explain to me what it really means when a study says that, "One of these (studies), conducted in northern Italy, found that frequent dairy consumption could increase risk by two and one-half times.

First of all, "frequent" isn't defined, and secondly, I don't fully understand the implications of "two and one-half times." Does that mean that in a study involving 10,000 men, 5 "could" have an increased risk of cancer instead of 2 and a half men?

I remember when I first started taking Lipitor, I did some reading on cholesterol studies, and when someone said that high cholesterol could "double" one's risk of a heart attack, that's approximately what they meant: 6 out of 10,000 instead of 3 out of 10,000.

I can understand avoiding cow's milk if someone really prefers the taste of soy or almond. I can also understand switching when one is dealing with a recurrence and fighting like crazy to keep the disease at bay. But, for most men, all of these studies seem to use the words "might" and "could" and "may," and "suggests" and "possibly," and I just don't have a firm sense of what the risk actually might be. Can someone help me appreciate the true seriousness of the link between dairy and PCa? Has anyone "proved" a link, and how direct is that link? I'm not trying to argue at all, just curious.

I also would like to know how much, if any, dairy increases my risk for recurrence, as one of my doctors is trying to get me off of dairy plus other changes.

Here is a study that indicates there is zero additional risk of PC with dairy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2360740/

Here is another that says there is an increased risk, but pretty small( highest intake 1.1 times more likely than lowest intake to get PC):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16333032

Here is one that says for Japanese men, the highest intake group is about 1.6 times as likely to get OC.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18398033

Guess we can take our choice of studies.

And when it comes to looking at risk, it's all in the way of looking at it. If one group has 3 of 10,000 getting PC, and the other group has 6 of 10,000, then the 2nd group is twice as likely I suppose. Still, only an additional 3 out of 10,000 gets PC. Either number is miniscule. What is 3 out of 10,000--- .03%? If that math is correct then the 2nd group is twice as likely to PC but still 1st group is .03% and 2nd group is as additional risk of .03%, for .06%. Is that really worth worrying about? Even though the risk is doubled?

But a lot of reports will say "such and such cuts risk in half" when having such numbers as above.

Post Edited (BillyBob@388) : 4/25/2014 8:28:31 PM (GMT-6)

PhilC said...
The doctor I seen in the Division of Endocrinology at Mayo prescribed this for my osteoporosis:
Calcium 600 + D3 and Vitamin D3 2,000IU

Phil

Thats in the ballpark with what my wife has been doing for pre-osteoporosis, though it was not prescribed. Maybe a little more D3.

I've always been a big milk drinker... I buy 2 gallons at a time of the 1% stuff.

I guess that my explains why my finger nails and hair grow like weeds.

On the other hand, maybe if I switched to whole milk I could stop taking Vit D...since my numbers came in low.

Then there's the part where I read that on days where you get a lot of exposure to the Sun that you shouldn't take your Vit D...

What's a person to do

I have basically banned dairy products except for the very occasional small taste of cheese. There seems to be a correlation between countries with high dairy consumption and prostate cancer. Correlation does not equal causation so each individual will decide whether that seems strong enough to reduce milk consumption. Dr. Ornish and others seem to consider it a factor.

I've switched to soy milk. I know that some say that also presents problems but I also note that nations with high soy consumption have low rates of PCa. Again correlation, not causation but I can't help notice that millions of Chinese have high soy consumption and low prostate cancer rates.

Mel,

It would be interesting to hear what Paul, our resident pharmacist, has to say. I'm drinking milk becaused of osteopenia, which outweighs the possibility of PCa recurrence, given my numbers. In your situation it would certainly be more of a concern if there were a strong connection between milk and soy and PCa. From what Alen says, it seems that the connection,if any, is weak. All the best to you. Hang in there.

Tim