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Posted 11/1/2014 2:09 PM (GMT 0)
All this talk about taking a PSA test or don't, also doing AS once DX for PC.

Appling for Life insurance is what got me here. Never even heard of PSA until I received my denial for LI due to my PSA being 5.8 above their max which was 3 for my age 51 at the time.

Just curious if anyone knows what the "Life" Insurance companies take is on PSA screening? Also once you are dx with PC you can't tell them I know I have PC but I'm just going to do AS for now ....try getting coverage.

On a personal note my Life Insurance runs out next Nov when I turn 56...I'm sleeping with one eye open till then ;-)

Cmetalman
Posted 11/1/2014 2:11 PM (GMT 0)

cmetalman said...
All this talk about taking a PSA test or don't, also doing AS once DX for PC.

Appling for Life insurance is what got me here. Never even heard of PSA until I received my denial for LI due to my PSA being 5.8 above their max which was 3 for my age 51 at the time.

Just curious if anyone knows what the "Life" Insurance companies take is on PSA screening? Also once you are dx with PC you can't tell them I know I have PC but I'm just going to do AS for now ....try getting coverage.

On a personal note my Life Insurance runs out next Nov when I turn 56...I'm sleeping with one eye open till then ;-)

Cmetalman

Interesting thread......I didn't know Insurance company's did PSA testing for applicants.
Posted 11/1/2014 2:20 PM (GMT 0)
FoxRun,
Prior to being approved for LI , I had to take a blood test and because I was over 50 they included the PSA . I was notified my mail that I was denied due to a elevated PSA and was advised to see a urologist .
Cmetalman
Posted 11/1/2014 4:02 PM (GMT 0)
Life insurance companies definitely take blood tests including PSA. At age 68 mine was 2.7 so I got the insurance. Their threshold was 4.0. Ironically only 8 months later I was DXed with Gleason 9 PCa which turned out to be stage3. My PSA was actually 5.4 not 2.7 since I was on finasteride which reduces PSA about half but the insurance company failed to recognize this.
Bob
Posted 11/1/2014 4:42 PM (GMT 0)
Cmetalman,

Some term policies allow you to convert it to a universal policy for HE rest of your life. I was able to do that with my 10 year term, but it was very expensive.

I find it amazing that life insurance companies rely on PSA, yet the USPTF and several other entities don't want anything to do with using PSA. Guess it's the world we live in without a perfect test.

Jerry
Posted 11/1/2014 4:47 PM (GMT 0)
Jerry L
Can you convert even if you have PCa after you buy term insurance like my case? I would be surprised if I could!
Bob
Posted 11/1/2014 5:04 PM (GMT 0)
I got a 20 year term policy for $1,000,000 at 45. It's about $2,000 a year. This was after I was treated with RP. Being G6 they told me all they wanted to see was one PSA test within the last 6 months that was undetectable.

It is a little more expansive than if I didn't have PCa, but at least I got it for my kids..
Posted 11/1/2014 5:52 PM (GMT 0)

Break60 said...
Jerry L
Can you convert even if you have PCa after you buy term insurance like my case? I would be surprised if I could!
Bob

Bob, some insurance companies allow a term to be converted to a permanent policy, and guarantee you the initial rating (preferred, standard, etc.) but at the cost of your current age.

However, most companies don't have this benefit.
Posted 11/1/2014 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Bob,

I bought a 10 year term policy in 2005. In 2009 I was diagnosed. I thought for a few years that I had no options once I got to 2015. Then in 2013 I talked to my agent who told me I had the type of term policy that allowed me to convert it. Good thing because with a g9, etc...I would not be able to buy life insurance through the normal means. (If you want more specifics, let me know)

I'm still working and many employers have an option to buy insurance. I didn't play that right and wound up having to answer a lot of questions and was denied. It was a timing thing. At some point my employer changed their requirements.

Check with your agent. You never know until you ask.
Posted 11/2/2014 12:46 AM (GMT 0)
at first i thought about getting as much guaranteed issued life insurance as i could, then realized most of us will die with PCa someday but noy likely from it.

in your case as a small business owner it may make sense, but if i can afford to retire i probably do not need life insurance

lupronjim

Post Edited (Nomar Schottzenkeister) : 6/11/2015 9:32:31 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 11/19/2014 10:39 PM (GMT 0)

cmetalman said...
All this talk about taking a PSA test or don't, also doing AS once DX for PC.

Appling for Life insurance is what got me here. Never even heard of PSA until I received my denial for LI due to my PSA being 5.8 above their max which was 3 for my age 51 at the time.

Just curious if anyone knows what the "Life" Insurance companies take is on PSA screening? Also once you are dx with PC you can't tell them I know I have PC but I'm just going to do AS for now ....try getting coverage.

On a personal note my Life Insurance runs out next Nov when I turn 56...I'm sleeping with one eye open till then ;-)

Cmetalman

Life insurance companies screen for PSA, From an underwriting standpoint, the following is a general guideline as to when life insurance companies start asking additional questions.


  • Under Age 50 - PSA of 2.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 50-59 - PSA of 3.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 60-70 - PSA of 4.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 70+ - PSA of 5 ng/ml or greater


If the first PSA elevation is from the life insurance paramed exam, you will typically get postponed until it is evaluated further. If PC is ruled out, it's possible to get life insurance once cause is determined.

Life Insurance Conversions - If you look at your policy, the Page 3 of the policy will usually list conversion privilege, exchange date, etc.

If conversion is available, you can exchange the term policy at the same underwriting rate class you initially qualified for (there is no medical underwriting with a conversion). The premium for the new policy is based on your current age and type of policy you are converting to.

As far as coverage - Up to Stage T2b, Gleason 7, PSA less than 20 - coverage is available within 12 months after treatment.
T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.
T3a - Case by case basis, after 5 year postpone from completion date of all treatment.

These are very general guidelines, each case is uniquely different.

Other things that are looked at:
Medications - if it lowers your PSA, underwriters will double your PSA...but they definitely do miss as mentioned.
Recurrence - case by case basis, offer may vary from 5 year postpone to permanent decline.
Watch and Wait - If under age 70, difficult to obtain coverage

Hope this is helpful. Thanks

Mike Horbal
LifeInsuranceAdvisors.com

some recent case studies
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-39/
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-38/
Posted 11/19/2014 10:51 PM (GMT 0)
I was trying to change my supplemental Medicare Policy back to a plan F. My PSA was 6.1 and was turned down. Had to stay with the plan G that I was on. DX of PCA came about 4 months later. It's still affordable though.

Carl
Posted 11/21/2014 12:26 AM (GMT 0)
So, I am pretty I can't even get life insurance? I have an existing policy from the company I work for that is for $750k, that didn't require a physical that I have had for years. I assumed that since I have been diagnosed with early stage PC with Active Surveillance, that I would be SOL if I ever left my current job and lost the life insurance provided by my employer.

For the record, my PSA has gone down from 4.97 to 3.89 since my PC diagnosis 6 months ago. I figure the reduction in PSA is mainly due to starting statin therapy again. I had been off statins due to muscle/joint pain for a couple of years, but was on statins going all the back to my first high PSA back in 2006. Funny thing is that now that I am back on the statins my PSA a decade later is less than a point from my original high PSA of 2.9. So in essence my elevated PSA was due to temporarily stopping my statin use, but that is what unearthed my PC for diagnosis. So in a weird way, I likely would not have found the minute amount of PC that I have had I not stopped taking the statins.

Funny how things work. So, my doctor tells me my G6 PC is so small treatment is not needed at present and that for all intents and purposes I probably have had it already for years (but just finally found it in the biopsy). But, because of the diagnosis, I can't get additional life insurance without yanking out my prostate that isn't worth the surgery risks to take out. Nice catch 22.
Posted 11/21/2014 1:38 AM (GMT 0)
PC,

I'm a financial planner so I have some idea on this. I believe you could get coverage if you left a job for another one, but there might be some limits before you have to "prove" your insurability. It might be based on income, but I'm not certain on that.

For example, two years ago I had a supplemental LI policy through my group plan at work of $500k. I didn't have to pass any sort of measure, give an interview, sample, etc to get that coverage.

However, last year I decided to increase that supplemental policy to $800k but I had to "prove" that I was insurable for that amount of coverage. They took my blood, urine and doctors records but I was approved.

Some 10 year term might be much easier with a high PSA, but if it's below 4.0 you might sail through the process.
Posted 11/21/2014 2:02 AM (GMT 0)
Dewayne,
Appreciate your insight. I don't plan on leaving my job anytime soon, so I do believe I am safe (for now) with having at least some life insurance. I do think however that it is in my best interest to get an additional term policy for 20 years or so (over an above the life insurance I have with my job). From what I was told, by a friend who is an insurance agent, I can't get a policy (without lying) about my PC diagnosis even though my PSA is lower than 4. In your knowledge is this not correct?
Posted 11/21/2014 3:00 AM (GMT 0)

PC Legacy said...
Dewayne,
Appreciate your insight. I don't plan on leaving my job anytime soon, so I do believe I am safe (for now) with having at least some life insurance. I do think however that it is in my best interest to get an additional term policy for 20 years or so (over an above the life insurance I have with my job). From what I was told, by a friend who is an insurance agent, I can't get a policy (without lying) about my PC diagnosis even though my PSA is lower than 4. In your knowledge is this not correct?

No I wouldn't lie, that's fraud and pretty serious. I think there might be some coverage you could get, and it'd be more likely a 10-year term as that would be easier to qualify for that a 20-year, for example.

I say 'might', but honestly I've only known people who've had cancer or heart disease but had procedures. I haven't ran across the "active surveillance" scenario. (I didn't even know that existed until a month ago, to be honest).
Posted 11/21/2014 2:49 PM (GMT 0)
Any time you apply for life insurance (except for the limited coverage guaranteed acceptance plans) there are underwriting requirements, the most obvious of which are medical and lifestyle.

As long as prostate cancer is significant as a cause of death it will range from tough to get to impossible to get and at standard rates, unless you appear to the insurance company as having been cured with little probability of recurrence. As with most any cancer and other significant medical issues, the insurance company must see that you are effectively cured and that the cancer will not be life threatening.

There are gradations of premium cost just as there are with weight, diabetes, lifestyle, etc. That some people have conditions that are insurable. but potentially life limiting, call for additional premiums to pay for the additional risk. This is similar to when a person with a history of accidents may have to pay more for car insurance than the person with a clean record.

I have been in the financial services industry for 40 years and advise that if you have life insurance you need, then keep it. If you need more than seek out a reputable advisor that is well experienced with impaired risk underwriting. If you are leaving an employer plan look at conversion options to know what they are long before you leave, but also shop for individual coverage.

In the end it will come down the unique circumstances of the individual and the company he is dealing with. And as Dewayne stresses, be complete and clear about the situation. Worse than having no insurance would be having a claim denied due to fraudulent misrepresentation. Quite a blow to family members expecting a benefit.
Posted 11/21/2014 3:29 PM (GMT 0)
JNF,
Your response is what I expected and have thought is my situation. Even though my PC is a G6 in only one core with only 1% of the sample cancerous, hardly growing at all and according to my urologist/surgeon does not impose any immediate risk I am likely SOL from getting additional life insurance (or at least at a reasonable price).

My urologist thinks it likely that I may never need treatment. Frankly, he threaded the needle to even find it. Unfortunately it appears my quest to determine my slightly elevated PSA has now boxed me in a corner insurance wise. I do have $750k in life insurance from my company, but it is not portable if I leave my job at any point in the future. Great. Well at least my PC is thought to be no big deal and does not need treatment at the present time. Guess I still have plenty to be thankful for.
Posted 11/21/2014 3:50 PM (GMT 0)
PC,

You are young and a lot can happen over time. Often the insurer is most interested in the last 5-10 years. I have clients whom we were able to get both life insurance and long term care insurance at preferred rates, though each had cancer in their past. In each case it had been 10-15 years since treatment and the insurance company did not see the cancer as material.

It is very possible that once you show a good five year history of no progression you can be considered.
Posted 11/21/2014 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
This is YET ANOTHER REASON for the uncommon, life-threatening cancer of the Prostate should be called Cancer, and the very common non-life threatening normal aging process of the Prostate should be called something other than "prostate cancer."

Prostate cancer is really two VERY DIFFERENT diseases which should (and will soon) be broken out into two ACTUAL different disease names.

People like you and me are denied supplemental insurance based on a non-life threatening condition. This will, however, be one of that factors that drives change...cuz this ain't right.
Posted 11/21/2014 3:59 PM (GMT 0)
I had melanoma in 1985 -- a mole about the size of a quarter removed from my back followed by a wide excision to take surrounding tissue. The good news about melanoma is that if removed before it reaches a critical point it can effectively be "cured", something we pretty much never say about PCa. However if it passes that critical point it is nearly always fatal. Nonetheless, having had a melanoma puts you at a much higher risk of having another one--something insurers will take into account when they crunch their numbers.


about 12 years later -- but still before I was diagnosed with PCa -- I was able to buy a 20 year term life insurance policy for $500K. I was "rated" because of the melanoma, so I paid a slightly higher premium (an extra $100 - $200 annually).

I don't know how, if at all, this relates to PCa, but maybe there are insurers who will cover a relatively low-risk case for a higher premium, as they did with my melanoma.

Jim
Posted 6/11/2015 1:47 PM (GMT 0)

riskquoter said...

cmetalman said...
All this talk about taking a PSA test or don't, also doing AS once DX for PC.

Appling for Life insurance is what got me here. Never even heard of PSA until I received my denial for LI due to my PSA being 5.8 above their max which was 3 for my age 51 at the time.

Just curious if anyone knows what the "Life" Insurance companies take is on PSA screening? Also once you are dx with PC you can't tell them I know I have PC but I'm just going to do AS for now ....try getting coverage.

On a personal note my Life Insurance runs out next Nov when I turn 56...I'm sleeping with one eye open till then ;-)

Cmetalman

Life insurance companies screen for PSA, From an underwriting standpoint, the following is a general guideline as to when life insurance companies start asking additional questions.


  • Under Age 50 - PSA of 2.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 50-59 - PSA of 3.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 60-70 - PSA of 4.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 70+ - PSA of 5 ng/ml or greater


If the first PSA elevation is from the life insurance paramed exam, you will typically get postponed until it is evaluated further. If PC is ruled out, it's possible to get life insurance once cause is determined.

Life Insurance Conversions - If you look at your policy, the Page 3 of the policy will usually list conversion privilege, exchange date, etc.

If conversion is available, you can exchange the term policy at the same underwriting rate class you initially qualified for (there is no medical underwriting with a conversion). The premium for the new policy is based on your current age and type of policy you are converting to.

As far as coverage - Up to Stage T2b, Gleason 7, PSA less than 20 - coverage is available within 12 months after treatment.
T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.
T3a - Case by case basis, after 5 year postpone from completion date of all treatment.

These are very general guidelines, each case is uniquely different.

Other things that are looked at:
Medications - if it lowers your PSA, underwriters will double your PSA...but they definitely do miss as mentioned.
Recurrence - case by case basis, offer may vary from 5 year postpone to permanent decline.
Watch and Wait - If under age 70, difficult to obtain coverage

Hope this is helpful. Thanks

Mike Horbal
LifeInsuranceAdvisors.com

some recent case studies
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-39/
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-38/


So me being a T2c and below 1 for the past 4 years could qualify for Life Insurance, with some extra expenses?

T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.
Posted 6/12/2015 1:34 AM (GMT 0)

FoxRun said...

riskquoter said...

cmetalman said...
All this talk about taking a PSA test or don't, also doing AS once DX for PC.

Appling for Life insurance is what got me here. Never even heard of PSA until I received my denial for LI due to my PSA being 5.8 above their max which was 3 for my age 51 at the time.

Just curious if anyone knows what the "Life" Insurance companies take is on PSA screening? Also once you are dx with PC you can't tell them I know I have PC but I'm just going to do AS for now ....try getting coverage.

On a personal note my Life Insurance runs out next Nov when I turn 56...I'm sleeping with one eye open till then ;-)

Cmetalman

Life insurance companies screen for PSA, From an underwriting standpoint, the following is a general guideline as to when life insurance companies start asking additional questions.


  • Under Age 50 - PSA of 2.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 50-59 - PSA of 3.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 60-70 - PSA of 4.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 70+ - PSA of 5 ng/ml or greater


If the first PSA elevation is from the life insurance paramed exam, you will typically get postponed until it is evaluated further. If PC is ruled out, it's possible to get life insurance once cause is determined.

Life Insurance Conversions - If you look at your policy, the Page 3 of the policy will usually list conversion privilege, exchange date, etc.

If conversion is available, you can exchange the term policy at the same underwriting rate class you initially qualified for (there is no medical underwriting with a conversion). The premium for the new policy is based on your current age and type of policy you are converting to.

As far as coverage - Up to Stage T2b, Gleason 7, PSA less than 20 - coverage is available within 12 months after treatment.
T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.
T3a - Case by case basis, after 5 year postpone from completion date of all treatment.

These are very general guidelines, each case is uniquely different.

Other things that are looked at:
Medications - if it lowers your PSA, underwriters will double your PSA...but they definitely do miss as mentioned.
Recurrence - case by case basis, offer may vary from 5 year postpone to permanent decline.
Watch and Wait - If under age 70, difficult to obtain coverage

Hope this is helpful. Thanks

Mike Horbal
LifeInsuranceAdvisors.com

some recent case studies
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-39/
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-38/


So me being a T2c and below 1 for the past 4 years could qualify for Life Insurance, with some extra expenses?

T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.

I think so Foxrun. I'm a financial advisor and if you'd like for me to get you a quote I'd be happy to. My firm offers about eight of the country's top insurance products and I've seen people with much worse past cancers than PCa qualified. Email me if interested.
Posted 6/12/2015 3:58 PM (GMT 0)

Dewayne said...

FoxRun said...

riskquoter said...

cmetalman said...
All this talk about taking a PSA test or don't, also doing AS once DX for PC.

Appling for Life insurance is what got me here. Never even heard of PSA until I received my denial for LI due to my PSA being 5.8 above their max which was 3 for my age 51 at the time.

Just curious if anyone knows what the "Life" Insurance companies take is on PSA screening? Also once you are dx with PC you can't tell them I know I have PC but I'm just going to do AS for now ....try getting coverage.

On a personal note my Life Insurance runs out next Nov when I turn 56...I'm sleeping with one eye open till then ;-)

Cmetalman

Life insurance companies screen for PSA, From an underwriting standpoint, the following is a general guideline as to when life insurance companies start asking additional questions.


  • Under Age 50 - PSA of 2.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 50-59 - PSA of 3.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 60-70 - PSA of 4.5 ng/ml or greater
    Age 70+ - PSA of 5 ng/ml or greater


If the first PSA elevation is from the life insurance paramed exam, you will typically get postponed until it is evaluated further. If PC is ruled out, it's possible to get life insurance once cause is determined.

Life Insurance Conversions - If you look at your policy, the Page 3 of the policy will usually list conversion privilege, exchange date, etc.

If conversion is available, you can exchange the term policy at the same underwriting rate class you initially qualified for (there is no medical underwriting with a conversion). The premium for the new policy is based on your current age and type of policy you are converting to.

As far as coverage - Up to Stage T2b, Gleason 7, PSA less than 20 - coverage is available within 12 months after treatment.
T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.
T3a - Case by case basis, after 5 year postpone from completion date of all treatment.

These are very general guidelines, each case is uniquely different.

Other things that are looked at:
Medications - if it lowers your PSA, underwriters will double your PSA...but they definitely do miss as mentioned.
Recurrence - case by case basis, offer may vary from 5 year postpone to permanent decline.
Watch and Wait - If under age 70, difficult to obtain coverage

Hope this is helpful. Thanks

Mike Horbal
LifeInsuranceAdvisors.com

some recent case studies
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-39/
lifeinsuranceadvisors.com/blog/prostate-cancer-life-insurance-case-study-38/


So me being a T2c and below 1 for the past 4 years could qualify for Life Insurance, with some extra expenses?

T2c - Postpone may run up to 24 months, coverage is then available and will usually have flat extra expense of $600-$750 added per every $100k of coverage. the flat extra lasts 3-5 years in most cases.

I think so Foxrun. I'm a financial advisor and if you'd like for me to get you a quote I'd be happy to. My firm offers about eight of the country's top insurance products and I've seen people with much worse past cancers than PCa qualified. Email me if interested.

Thanks Dewayne,
I couldn't find an email in your profile, but no odds as my wife works in the industry and I'm here in Canada anyway. My wife and I have had several discussions since my DX about not being insurable once DXed with PC and we have a difference of opinion on getting(or qualifying for) any additional insurance.
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