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Posted 12/30/2014 1:03 AM (GMT 0)
I had a dream about this last night. Supposedly I have PC, my brother had it, my father and grandfather died from it. Yet I have no symptoms and have never been more physically fit. So I'm flying completely on instruments here, trusting to various lab tests that's there's really something wrong with me that may require treatment. What I can't get my head around is the complete absence of any symptoms or any sense of a medical problem except for those tests. Anyone else experience this sense of doubt?
Posted 12/30/2014 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
I hear your real question, I think, supermax. "Do I really have to do something about this?"

Good question. And...Good luck. Guys with more experience than I will come along shortly and I will be all ears.

Kinda the same boat...
David
Posted 12/30/2014 1:41 AM (GMT 0)
No offence, but I think "denial" might be better a better choice of words than "doubt". They tell me I have mets, indicated by "tests", no real symptons yet but I have no doubt that they are there.

Cheers, Doug
Posted 12/30/2014 1:43 AM (GMT 0)
Most early stage cancers have no symptoms. Small tumors don't cause problems.

But, like kittens and puppies, they grow to be big problems. Often by the time they grow big enough to have symptoms, it's too late to effectively treat them. PC is one of those types. You could wait until symptoms show up. Likely that will be after the PC has metastasized you're getting bone pain. Possibly you could get urinary symptoms, but again, that would be a very large tumor and much more difficult to treat. The current theory is to find the cancer while it is small and easy to treat.

I've never had any doubt that the lab tests, properly done with appropriate checks with multiple testing methods (ie, PSA followed by biopsy together with imaging) can detect cancers early and deal with them before they become life threatening.

and if we never trusted our interments, we'd only fly in daylight, good weather and low altitudes...

Andrew
Posted 12/30/2014 1:57 AM (GMT 0)
Prostate cancer is a mystery, wrapped in an puzzlement, surrounded by a fog bank. It is a disease that, at it's treatable stage, commonly has no symptoms. You're doing the exact right thing by keeping a close monitor on your status.
Posted 12/30/2014 1:57 AM (GMT 0)
A few days ago I posted a link to an article about famous people with PCa.

Included in the ones who caught it late were Frank Zappa and Dennis Hopper, RIP.

Andrew summed it up best above though.
Posted 12/30/2014 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
Zero symptoms.. In my best physical condition ever, full of energy, even young at heart.. Only age related tests detecting what I'd never had known.. Modern medicine I suppose..
Posted 12/30/2014 2:11 AM (GMT 0)
Same for me. I am in the best shape I've been since my 30s. I feel like a million bucks (physically)

And I'm going for RALP in a week. :-/\/
Posted 12/30/2014 2:25 AM (GMT 0)
Same with me too. No symptoms. PSA ?, reported issue. Biopsy ?, reported issue. 3T MRI ?, reported issue. The only real symptom I ever had was some pain at orgasm, a burning sensation.

Even the treatments have to be taken on faith. Lupron shot was real. PSA decline ?, reported. Radiation therapy sessions where, reportedly, invisible rays allegedly treated the alleged issue (?).

Very little of this is physically verifiable. Docs tell me I have a problem, they tell me they treated it, they tell me it's better, for now. Much to take on faith!

Jerry
Posted 12/30/2014 3:24 AM (GMT 0)
Hey supermax - first I'll also weigh in and say that I had NO indications whatsoever that I had PCa. Eat right, correct intake of vitamins and sup's, cardio and weight training daily, super active, and so on. BUT, my biopsy proved otherwise. Having said that, with your stats I'm not sure you have PCa, yet. . . . You might want to slow down a bit for now - stay on top of it with the emphasis on ACTIVE part of AS, but don't hit the PCa panic button just yet!
Posted 12/30/2014 3:26 AM (GMT 0)
Same here. I was diagnosed at age 41. No family history. No symptoms. Normal DRE. In the gym 1.5 hours per day 4-5 days per week, in excellent overall health. The odds of me having PCa were extraordinarily small.

My PCa was found from a PSA screening (score: 9.0) and then a biopsy.

-Gedman
Posted 12/30/2014 3:29 AM (GMT 0)
Both prostate cancer and colon cancer are quite easily detected SILENT killers, with many ( most ? ) people showing no symptoms until its too late to get treatment with good probability of a cure. THATS why everyone who cares about their health should start getting colonoscopies after age 50 .... and men should get regular PSA tests. If your family history is putting you at higher risk, this testing is more important and will start sooner.

Being in tip top shape does not stop cancer.

If a PSA rise leads to a biopsy, and your biopsy is positive, you have choices. You can choose to question or doubt their findings, accept it and keep an eye on it, or take whatever treatment you feel is best for you.
Posted 12/30/2014 3:38 AM (GMT 0)
PSA is a Godsend. It sure beats what we used to have to rely on. DRE only.
Posted 12/30/2014 3:40 AM (GMT 0)
Hey Supermax

I hear you, buddy. I said the same thing when my first ever
PSA results came back at 17.+. I figured they made a mistake. Everything works perfectly. I have no pains. I am in perfect health. I never smoked. My weight is perfect.
"Some poor guy has my results and I, his. He is going to have a miserable day when his doc calls him back for a retest."

3 weeks later, at my retest, my PSA was 22+. I was right about one thing - some guy having a miserable day. And that guy was me.

Jeff
Posted 12/30/2014 12:23 PM (GMT 0)
Frank Zappa, Moon Unit ... indeed a visionary and "dont you eat that yellow snow". Pity he had to go so soon.

Max, I did not have the classic symptoms -- urinary infections, voiding bladder, blood in semen -- none of these things. But I was TIRED ... very very tired. I had difficulty walking up one flight of stairs... after about 10 different hospitals and procedures Prostate Cancer landed on me ...

Yeah: "Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow"
Posted 12/30/2014 1:09 PM (GMT 0)
I was into triathlons. PCa could have cared less. Unfortunately, being fit does not seem to protect a person from cancer.

I still exercise and eat heart healthy, because I figure it will help me recover from any new malady that may crop up.

By the way, I read of a study that shows exercise may be good for helping prevent Alzheimer's. Where did I leave those Running shoes?

Post Edited (RCS) : 12/30/2014 6:14:57 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/30/2014 1:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Supermax!

I might have a temporary "out" for you. It is well known that ejaculation (and DREs) elevate PSA results.* Think back to the nights before you had your blood drawn.
Did you tango 'tween the sheets'? If yes, then you have a small chance. You can cling to that.

Jeff
I heard they are 95% sure they found the Indonesian plane and some bodies. That 5% helps some families.


*Did your doc tell you about that? Probably not. An elevated PSA requires followup visits. This is one of my pet peeves.
Posted 12/30/2014 1:35 PM (GMT 0)
Can't say I didn't have some symptoms. I had an enlarged prostate with all the stuff that went along with it. Spent three days in the hospital on IV antibiotics with a prostate infection. (Drove myself to my primary care doctor's office; they called an ambulance to tote me across the street to the hospital.) I had some urinary symptoms plus a bit of disorgasmia (like Jerry described, a bit of a sting/ache after orgasm) but they were all explainable by prostatitis. So I wasn't completely blindsided.

But, except for the fever and chills from the infection none of my symptoms were particularly dire. They were the kind of things where, if my doctor had told me they were nothing to worry about, I could have easily manned up and ignored them, writing them off as the result of having a few more miles on the odometer.

All that said, I was a young, vigorous man when I checked myself into the hospital to meet Mr Davinci and start my treatment, and I have been an old, infirm man ever since -- impotent, incontinent, progressively weaker, moody, joyless and irritable. So, I know what you are talking about. I have given up a lot based on my faith in medical science.

And I plan to get it back, or at least as much as I can. I've done old age now. Three years is enough. I am scheduled for an artificial sphincter, an implant and a hernia repair. My two years of ADT is expected to start to wear off any time now. The trick is not to lose that faith when it is tested -- not to quit while you are behind.
Posted 12/30/2014 2:53 PM (GMT 0)
PeterDisAbelard

"I have been an old, infirm man ever since [my treatment]-- impotent, incontinent, progressively weaker, moody, joyless and irritable."

Which explains why you had to stay in the tent at the GFMPH-NY gathering. smilewinkgrin

Jeff (GFMPH NY host)

Post Edited (Worried Guy) : 12/30/2014 8:08:52 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 12/30/2014 4:41 PM (GMT 0)
It's a very comfy tent and the good company and excellent Scotch did a lot to alleviate the "moody, joyless and irritable" part. And if you have to be incontinent it is a help to have one's own port-a-potty a few steps away and so many trees...
Posted 12/30/2014 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Super Max and All,

I understand your feelings and share your situation.

In 1999, I watched my father slowly die (age 64) from metastasized PC that was diagnosed as T4 when he was first seen (age55). I want no part of that path.

I asked for a consult with a Urologist from my GP at Kaiser Santa Rosa. She set me up with Dr. Schuller, the head of the Urology department here in Santa Rosa.

We had a good long talk and he reviewed my family history and examined me and my PSA total and free data. He said that I was totally asymptomatic and my PSA (total) was 1.0, my DRE was negative, no problems urinating. Despite this he encouraged me to have a biopsy done due to my family history. His wisdom has added many years to my projected lifespan.

My biopsy showed 4 cores of 14 with cancer Gleason score 6(3+3), with 5% of the biopsy involved with cancer. After watching my Father pass away, I had decided a long time ago that if I tested positive for PC, I would get a Robot Assisted Radical Prostatectomy (RALP). I did and we caught it early enough that all of the cancer was still in my prostate and is now cut out. I will be waiting for my post RALP PSA tests that I will do for the rest of my life to confirm that all PC is gone.

My point and advice to you is to find an excellent Urologist and go and get a biopsy. The biopsy is not fun, but that biopsy and my wise Urologist may have saved years of my life and avoided my suffering like my Dad did.

I wish you all the best. You and all the other men and they S.O. are in my prayers every day.

Sincerely, ScientificLifestyle (Pat)
Posted 12/31/2014 12:17 PM (GMT 0)
Pat,

Thanks for sharing your story. I am sure I would have followed the same path as you.

It reminds me of the ladies who have breasts removed because of their family history of beast cancer.

If I may pry a bit .... with a gleason 6, did you ever consider AS? Did your doctor bring up the possibility of AS, or was AS off the plate early on?

Best wishes and good luck as you move forward.
Posted 12/31/2014 3:43 PM (GMT 0)
I've been getting annual PSA and DRE since I was 40. Now, at 56, it's paid off. I've had some slight symptoms of prostate enlargement, but nothing big enough to worry about. For years, my PSA has been 1.0, plus or minus. 2013 it was 2.0, this fall, 3.3, and I went to the Urologist for the biopsy. Cancer is no respecter of persons, that's for sure. I'm still sorting through the treatment options.
Posted 1/1/2015 1:21 PM (GMT 0)
I was where you are too. Felt great with no symptoms and yet I was having major surgery and then after that radiation. It takes a great deal of trust that the test are accurate and you trust the professionals administering the test, reading the result, doing the procedure etc. But I had rather catch it early, whether there are symptoms or not.
Posted 1/1/2015 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
Max,
I can relate to your situation. I too had no symptoms whatsoever. My 'enlarged' prostate was brought to my attention after a colonoscopy. Next came the psa tests, the biopsy, and suddenly I was being told that I may need a treatment that may very well have life altering side effects for a disease that I couldn't even tell that I had. It is perplexing. From very early on, I was much more leery of any treatment than I was of the disease.
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